What can be reasons to farm Safecoins at a low price?

I would like to hear peoples reasons to be a farmer from day one when the costs are higher then the earnings:

@dyamanaka already made this calculation in another post: https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/maidsafe-development/IO7Zb4pq3XQ:

What is 1 safecoin worth in other currencies? From a US Vault Farmer perspective, I can valuate, using costs to generate per coin. See below.
S = Safecoins generated per month.
I = ISP (Internet Service Provided) monthly bill
E = Electricity monthly bill
H = (Hard Drive cost) / 12 months (life expectancy)
1 safecoin = ( I + E + H ) / S

I’ll assume the max generation (farming) speed at 24 coins per day, or 1 coin per hour. Which gives me roughly 720 safecoins per month.
S = 720

My ISP bill for high speed broadband is $70 per month.
I = 70

My electricity bill is $30 per month.
E = 30

The external hard drive I bought costs $120 / 12 (life expectancy) = $10 per month.
H = 10

1 safecoin = ( 70 + 30 + 10 ) / 720 = $0.15 per coin

At the most basic level, this is how much 1 safecoin costs in physical resources. Others will have a different results based on their situation.

At this moment people are selling for $ 0.0134 per Safecoin, and so it will cost me far more then I will earn. To be clear: I know the price isn’t relevant at this moment but Safecoin will have to be worth about 11 times as much to not lose any money.

The answers I can give myself are:

  • Future price of one Safecoin
  • You just want to contribute to a project you believe in

I guess the main reason for people to contribute by farming will be that they will make money, especially when they don’t really feel that they need MaidSafe, so my actual question is:

What can be other reasons for people to farm if it’s not for the money ?

Well I think there is ample incentive regardless of safecoin. Its like the tor network, its run by volenteers and there is incentive in its usefulness regardless of being paid. Same for i2p. In relation to maidsafe, the incentive is that you and many others have many terrabytes of space just sitting idle. By contributing this space (which may already be electrified and connected to a network) to the network you basically get a free drive on the cloud of that amount of space which is completely encrypted and cannot be removed. I believe the incentive stands regardless of the currency.

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Also the calculation above assumes you dont use your internet for anything else. You probably do. So whats the value of the unused internet. If I have a 200 Mb line with unlimited upload/download and I load balance that my spare drive space and bandwidth only get used at night while Im asleep, whats the cost to me then sice I couldnt use it and it costs me practically nothing. These calculations are heavily leaning towords professionals while the maidsafe network as far as I understand it was designed to use unused resources at its core.

One of my main reasons I give people is “why not?” Assuming you have an uncapped Internet connect I n, just use some throttling to make sure your Internet using experience isn’t too adversely effected and you’re set. You’re helping one of the best projects on the Internet succeed - which has the side effect of farming some coins that, if the project does succeed (which you’re helping it do), may very well be worth your while in the long run.

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My reason for farming is that I might make some money, but it’s not my real motive.

What motivates me it’s what has always done so: curiosity and excitement about something which fascinates me and in which I see such potential. Also, to be part of this, with others who share these motives and, help bring it to others, and bring others to it.

When people ask “why”, I think they only want to hear the reason, and am convinced they won’t “get” the rest so I tend to keep my motivations hidden. I wonder if I’m wrong about that now, so it’s nice to share them here - as practice for sharing them elsewhere! :slight_smile:

By the way: Great question!

Mark

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Agreed, great question. I think it is all relative as well, so you may farm safecoin when its worth almost zero, but I doubt that will always be the case. Like bitcoin in the early days in that respect.

For me its the hope that some of my resources go to somebody who will contribute positively to the world, even if it to create SAFE II :wink: As long as we move forward and get people the be free to share and secure to dream then I am happy.

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I am excited to see and participate in the development of hardware to fit this niche. I am a pc builder at heart, and find the learning experience of tinkering thrilling. The potential to monitize computation (further then PoW and PoS) is groundbreaking. With use, comes the network effect. If the market values this technology those who mined early will surely profit in the long run.

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I’m flattered you used my example. Now I will argue with myself for some amusement. Take note of the counter argument changes in BOLD.

“What is 1 safecoin worth in other currencies?”

From a US Consumer perspective, I can valuate, using costs to generate per coin. See below.
S = Safecoins generated per month.
I = ISP (Internet Service Provided) monthly bill
E = Electricity monthly bill
H = (Hard Drive cost) / 12 months (life expectancy)
1 safecoin = ( I + E + H ) / S

I’ll assume the max generation (farming) speed at 24 coins per day, or 1 coin per hour. Which gives me roughly 720 safecoins per month.
S = 720

My ISP, which I am already using, bill for high speed broadband is $70 per month. I estimate my bandwith sharing with the Network could be as high as 50%, (including time while sleeping). It can’t possibly be 100% because I am using it also.
I = 35

My electricity, which I am already paying, bill is $30 per month. The extra power usage would cause my bill to grow a tiny bit more. But we’ll be generous and estimate it at $5 more per month.
E = 5

The laptop, I already own, costs $0 / 12 (life expectancy) = $0 per month.
H = 0

1 safecoin = ( 35 + 5 + 0 ) / 720 = $0.05 per coin

The ISP and Power cost would be “0” by piggy backing at FREE Wifi locations. That would be unconscionable! Yet it can and will happen. Node rank will be negatively affected though, unless you plan on sleeping at the cafe 24/7.
Using the above “alternative” method, 1 safecoin = ( 0 + 0 + 0) / 720 = $0.00 per coin.

EDIT,
I should have rephrased the question to… What does 1 safecoin Cost to Generate? This is actually what I was talking about in relation to farmers trying to make a profit.

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Anyhow you can count on me from the beginning. Decentralized, anonymous, highly protected data storage, I just need to support :slight_smile:

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Every time I read posts questioning whether or not the OP should invest, farm, or whatever, it brings back memories of THOUSANDS of such conversations on bitcointalk regarding bitcoin.

Am I the only one that sees the similarities? I was mining when bitcoin was $6.00. I was told that I was never going to ROI after paying for GPU’s and electricity! I was mining when bitcoin jumped over $10.00. I was told that mining wasn’t worth it anymore. I was mining when bitcoin went over $30.00. At that point, the online “experts” were telling everyone that they should just turn off their gpu miners because the ASICS were about to attack.

It’s called discernment. If you don’t have it, don’t get out of bed. If you do have it, then savor the low prices and accumulate as many safecoins as you can.

I expect the Safe Network, Ethereum, and Omni to present the same wealth creating opportunities to *everyone who gets in early and forges ahead even when their coins are trading “for a low price.” If you can act with patience and discernment then you have a good chance of financially changing your life forever.

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Quote from: xxx on June 21, 2011, 10:54:04 PM
It’s amazing that the mining hardware just keeps piling in –

Yes, but than again it is still profitable. I thought mining would be over by now, but it just does not want to give up.

My 8 miners acquired 3.5 BTC in the last 22 hours. Even at $10 per BTC, that is $35. My electricity max per box (4 PCs), is roughly $1 for the day, therefore $4 in total.

My stats are that I’m earning $17 a day (taking into account currency conversions and MtGox fees) but power costs $5 per day (measured, not just estimated from parts specs). Not everyone pays a few cents per kilowatt like US/Canadian citizens seem to do. With a 50% difficulty increase that’ll be $12 per day but still burning $5 in power. Does it make sense to have $1000 of hardware producing less than 5 a day? (Don't forget taxes must be paid on income). Bitcoin's USD value did not increase at all in the last two difficulty increases, and there is no evidence this trend is about to change. MtGox’s little adventure is unlikely to have a stimulating effect on speculators either.

I have a feeling many bitcoin users are piling in without giving regard to the cost of power (and the cost of cooling where required). Pretty soon they’ll be thinking “free cash!” while spending $1.10 to make $1.

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One reason would be suppresion of the upload cost to make SAFE more attractive for people who are just looking for a cost-effective secure cloud storage solution.

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