Will the clearnet be accessible from SAFE?


So will you be able to access normal clearnet websites through the SAFE browser?

Also, will it be possible to let’s say, embed a video from YouTube into a website hosted on SAFE?

And if this is possible, will it allow some censored websites on the clearnet to become accessible?

I assumed this wouldn’t be possible, but thought I’d ask the question anyway.

Thanks :slight_smile:


Assume nothing, and consider that in order for the Safenet to succeed it will need to accomodate the needs of all stakeholders. The ability to see the clearnet from the Safenet will be important. Important question BTW. Good stuff.


It is absolutely possible from a technical standpoint. However, it isn’t possible by design on Peruse.

There is nothing stopping another browser or a plugin allow hybrid sites, but be aware of why maidsafe do not support it in Peruse; as soon as you allow clear net traffic, you are leaking data in the same way as you do on clear net.

For those who care about privacy, it is best not to use hybrid browsers. For those who don’t Care, it could make their user experience better.

It is really about individual choice.


Great, thanks. That makes sense.

I found it interesting in the SOLID presentation that SAFE data could be accessed from a clear net website / app, and was just wondering if this was possible the other way round. I suppose when a clear net website is accessing SAFE there will be no security compromises made, unlike how you’ve just described.

To clarify, this is not quite what I demonstrated.

It was an app written for the clearnet but that app was running on SAFEnetwork, so there was no ‘bridge’ between the two.


Ah ok, sorry, my misunderstanding.

So, the app will be destined for SAFE and not the clear net? Or was that just an example app?

Is SOLID a clear net project or will that potentially become completely within SAFE?

Just looking back at the solid website, it seems it’s more a set of standards, conventions and tools. I know of module design within my own job, I’m just trying to understand how this would work in this field.

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You’ve raised a key question: many will want to bridge, but doing so undermines important features of the SAFE Network.

I’m sure there will be bridges, safe and unsafe (in the safety sense)…

For example, I would create some code to copy things from clearnet to SAFE and use my computer as a bridge…BUT once copied I would break that bridge and use the data now on SAFE Network in order to stay anonymous. So that would be a temporary bridge.

If you make a regular or permanent bridge, you are really just using SAFE like an extra hard drive. Better than one that will fail one day, but just storage without the other advantages.

Yes, Solid is a clearnet project, it is the life work of the inventor of the Web. What is interesting about it is that it shares very similar goals to SAFE, which is what I found fascinating about it and lead me to dive into this.

How this will develop I don’t know. The Solid project will continue, which is great, because it shares our goals with or without the SAFE Network. It may work more with SAFE as we progress. I hope so.

Meanwhile SAFE can leverage the technology and growing capability of Solid, and make it easy for people working on Solid and the semantic web to build things on SAFE. As we share the same goals, I expect that to be attractive to them, but even if not, building A Semantic Web on SAFE using the Solid model is a big opportunity for us, for the reasons explained in my DevCon presentation.


As @Traktion has mentioned a browser accessing both is technically achievable, but when scoping the requirements for the new browser the community expressed a desire to have this SAFE only hence why Peruse is a SAFE only browser. There are pros and cons for having a browser that is compatible with both SAFE and clearnet, but that typically involves a trade off between convenience and security, and for now the community has picked the later.


Ok, that all makes sense. Thank you for the replies.

My next question is:

Will this stop me accepting Bitcoin on a SAFE website and the site knowing the payment was received?

The SAFE site runs on your computer so anything you get off the internet could also be spoofed to the SAFE site since its all on your computer.

The confirmation of payment would have to be done by the site “owner” using an APP they run that access the blockchain independently.


You say the SAFE site runs on my computer, but I thought website’s are hosted from the SAFE Network, so no need for the developers computer to be involved once the website was created? Would it need to keep my computer on to host or help host the website?

Yes it is.

But the computing is done on your computer. The site “owner” is not running anything. Any data written to the network by the site is through your account from your computer.

There is no Server running the site, no other computing device running the site for you.

Thus any person using the site has it running on their individual computer. And if no one is using the site then the site is just files on the safe network.


Let’s hope that changes. Convenience is as important. Compromise is the key.

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Ok I understand, thanks.

So effectively, if I was wanting to automate a bitcoin payment on my SAFE website, I would need the person that is using the site and paying with bitcoin to connect to the clear net and confirm the bitcoin has been sent, then I could release say a music download. If this is so, couldn’t there be a security risk to allow the person that is paying to be the bridge to the clear net for confirmation?

I’d say the best way to do this is for an APP that is running a program rather than a site in the browser and the program has a btc wallet incorporated or uses a wallet that allow APIs to it. So while it is sending the btc transaction over the internet, it is a narrow access and can be controlled.

The issue is mostly with browsing type of programs that can easily leak personal information.

For confirming payment then you have the choice to trust the person has not modded your APP and the APP can confirm the transaction has occurred. Obviously if the person modded the APP then it can do as it pleases and spoof the confirmation.

You really need to think about what you want to do and devise a plan that works with SAFE and doesn’t allow spoofing.

The other choice is to have a APP running on your computer that receives a message from your selling APP and it confirms the transaction and sends a message to the person running your selling APP that has the unlock key in it for the music or whatever.

When SAFE ges the computing module then all this will be easy because the network can do the required confirmations.

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As Bitcoin runs over the clear net, you would need to create an interface point between your Bitcoin client and the SAFENetwork.

You could have an agent running on a box somewhere which is just listening for payments to a Bitcoin address and update the SAFENetwork accordingly when a payment arrives. The clear net website only knows of a payment through similar techniques too.

For example, you could fulfil an order by sending a safe message to the user, giving access to a file or part of a site, dispatching goods, etc. In short, all the normal stuff you would do after receiving payment.

Ultimately, SAFENetwork doesn’t stop you or your apps using clear net. It just may mean you need some glue software running somewhere (such as a server), which facilitates communication between the two networks.


Just as MAIDSAFE has built a browser that can communicate with the Safe Network, someone will also make a wallet app (multi-currency wallet app likely IMO) that will also be able to access the Safe Network. And in that manner you will be able to do all the same things.


Yeah, now I understand it more thanks to your replies, it does sound like a server will be needed when wanting to use clear net access. Which of course makes sense as that is how it works now.

Thank you all for your excellent replies and continuing to help me understand SAFE much better.