Will Safecoin have Intrinsic Value?

Will Safecoin have intrinsic value, why it why not?

That’s #7 from your list in a post you created recently. Why not continue there?

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Is Safecoin Money? Talks about Safecoin as a store of value. This topic asks a new question, does it have intrinsic value?

You number 7 in that topic is store of value. That’s intrinsic value, isn’t it?

But I don’t mind if you continue here, I’m just saying it seems unnecessary to me.

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Depends on what your definition of intrinsic value is. Value is in my view always circumstantial or subjective.

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You already ask this question on another thread, some weeks ago.

If we define Intrinsic as “belonging naturally”, safecoin can always be used to buy storage on the network. The value of safecoin is also backed up by its buying power, but there is no intrinsic value to it besides what it means to the network and what portion of storage it can potentially requisition.

I think, but please correct me.

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This is the point I am trying to make. Safecoin’s intrinsic value is directly linked to its ability to acquire Network resources. If this is true the more resources the SAFE Network has, the more intrinsically valuable Safecoin becomes.

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Now I thought the distribution of safecoin was suppose to scale depending on the available resources of the network. I also think that this “value” we are talking about needs to be defined better.

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It can be worthwhile to compare safecoin to bitcoin. Here is one take on it:

"I think Bitcoin is a hybrid of three things with which we’re all pretty familiar: a currency, an equity, and a social network.

The currency part is pretty easy to understand. Someone is offering something for sale like a bike or a month’s rent, and they might give you a quote in dollars, yen and bitcoins. Bitcoin basically acts like a currency then.

Bitcoin also has equity-like characteristics in that the value seems to grow as the whole Bitcoin ecosystem grows. The value of a bitcoin is up about 50x this year, which is an insane swing for a currency, but if you think about it as equity in a hot startup, it’s not that preposterous when coming off of a low base. Bitcoins also have market cap (see: CoinMarketCap).

And most crucially, there’s a social networking element to it (this is something Antonis Polemitis has written on). Bitcoin is something that’s valued because lots of people use it." – http://www.businessinsider.com/why-bitcoin-has-value-2013-12?IR=T

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That seems valid. The intrinsic value of safecoin is how much available data storage it can buy. Then there can also be additional value. In fact, the additional value can be hugely more than the intrinsic value if safecoin becomes very popular (see the quoted article in my previous post).

Hopefully on topic: What will happen if/when the safecoin value becomes much more than only its intrinsic value? Will the farming reward go down? Or is the farming reward unrelated to the intrinsic value?

Wow, look we got a thinking person on this topic! (I mean this in a positive way)

If the amount of Safecoin was supposed to scale proportionally to the number of MBs available on the network, Safecoin (and MAID, which will convert to Safecoin 1:1) would act as the “store of MB value”. If the number of Safecoins grows faster than the amount of resources coming online measured by usable capacity, then it’d still be a store of value, but inflationary - similar to the US dollar, which on average can buy less and less.

And then there are some exceptions - situations in which the purchasing power of your Safecoin may may need to be managed. Members who understand this problematic are considering edge cases in which the use of your coins may need to be discouraged, as they call it, because in rare moments there may be too few resources available for sale for your Safecoin.

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I’m not sure how immediately easy it can be to answer the question, since there are so many sources out there with different economic philosophies, or that entirely ignore emerging (digital) currencies. (I could be copping out instead of trying, though, on that front.) But here are some words!

"In finance, intrinsic value refers to the value of a company, stock, currency or product determined through fundamental analysis without reference to its market value. It is also frequently called fundamental value."
Intrinsic value (finance) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(So it’s also called fundamental value I guess.)

So, somewhat like the intrinsic value of a currency/product, you can interact with a company directly, by walking into their store for example. Thus instead of flipping a coin around looking cool, you’re submerging into the company’s atmosphere to pick their assets. Sounds a bit strange to me… (I’m more familiar with people arguing about intrinsic worth regarding currency, rather than “a company, stock, […] or product”). Alright bear with my strange post so far, since I think below is much more thought provocative.

Instrumental value – what the goods are that can be gotten from a thing (Safecoin) – is the other side of the intrinsic value coin, which I’m personally hoping Safecoin has a lot more of than intrinsic value (though they’re interwoven together anyway), so that the price goes high and causes a stir among the world. People worry about the amount of MB Safecoin will be able to buy, but Safecoin also has instant transactions, ~0 transfer cost, anonymity, an exchange (Safe Exchange) with many currency-to-currency possibilities, programmable features (I think??), and a free pony. (Of course these things need to be fully developed first, with the exception of the pony since they’re cuter when young.) I could actually see at least one of those being intrinsic value!

For all I know, the amount of instrumental value that Safecoin has might outweigh its intrinsic value by an overwhelmingly large margin. (I’m sure there are at least a couple intrinsic.) I think the phrase “intrinsic value” is really broad, and people can try to answer all the values and worth they can muster; but their lack of creativity will be picked up (in the form of creativity) by a different person who formed his own insanely creative/personal idea for intrinsic value. Of course, people historically gel into habitual/cultural ways of thinking about things’ intrinsic worth, so there are those common (“major”) grounds, I guess.

Safecoin is more like a (digital) “proof” of a work of some sort, since it’s rewarded by the network after doing PUTs, and you can’t hold it and flip it around. (I don’t know why I keep coming back to the flipping it around scenario. To contrast: flipping around a flash drive doesn’t carry the same satisfaction as a piece of metal. Though, banking on this, maybe one can imagine the biological construction of a unique individual deriving much satisfaction out of performing such a task, like some kind of nervous tic.) Even trading Safecoin for storage could be considered instrumental value, though I suppose the intrinsic aspect of it is closely related to "PUT"ing notion—that the farmer has done in order to obtain the coin in the first place: which then buys other people’s "PUT"s.

Also, as said in a paragraph above, it’s really about the ratio between “intrinsic value” and “instrumental value” – and certain companies/stocks/currencies/products have different ratios. But in the end… they’re both “value.”

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This is an interesting discussion with many different interesting ideas about what constitutes “intrinsic” or a “value”.I think you’d also have to ask “of value to what/who”.

Yup…Instrumental values aside, I’d suggest in a way, it’s similar to asking “What is the intrinsic value of oil in a machine, or blood to a Human” I think - as a (strained) analogy to the Safecoin/Network relationship.
If you ask "What is the intrinsic value of the Network/A Human life…then it gets interesting I think…especially (not to set anybody off :smiley:) the potential for Network computing abilities and a potential AI developing. As with Humans I’d then say the intrinsic values of the Network are whatever has meaning to itself…we create our own meaning…ok, just ignore me…just wandered into my mind palace…well, shed really… :smiley:

I question the use of the term “INTRINSIC VALUE”. Value is very circumstantial and subjective.

What safecoin does have is “built in utility”. Currencies are often given agreed upon value by being the form necessary to pay extortion fees. . . er, taxes.

Safecoin is needed to pay a utility fee (for PUTs) which serves a similar purpose, but without the coersion.

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