Search at launch? If not how long to get it up and running?
In a way I see the position MaidSAFE must be in with regard to offering a search system. The code the organization works with in the network has to be segregated from the internal house keeping and its automated search which makes the system work. But without Search the system won’t be initially very useable to the average potential end user and that could impact public perception and fuel spin. SAFE without search on a social level would be like a memory system without an address bus. Its got memory but no one can access anything except what they themselves have stored. Given the difficulties with mirroring and from my perspective sponsorship it doesn’t seem possible or desirable that existing search systems be able to access or in any way index the SAFE network.
With search you have a scaffolding to build everything social and build the network itself. Without it you have a recipe for frustration and will have people saying “I can have security with a flash drive I don’t plug into the internet.” More than this getting the wrong type of Search up initially could pattern the network experience for a long time to come.
You mean a search engine right?
If so that would be up to developers and app builders I would have thought… feel free to build your own.
Yes that is what I mean. But imagine apps ready to go but no search to look them up and link to them. There might be a way to follow links from a basic list of sites and manually enter addresses, but search would be quite helpful. People arent used to that work around any more.
Regards the search engine, we have been working on a Firefox ext that will enable search on the SAFE Network. Although resource has been pulled onto getting the core ready, we will get back to this soon. Regards apps, there is a search bar within the app launcher so this will be catered for, but I’m not sure at this point exactly how this will work.
As @goindeep suggests, devs would be free to build their own.
As @Warren suggests a negative first experience on the SAFE network not only could leave a long lasting impression but give considerable fuel to critics to dismiss “the decentralized experiment” as a failure. I don’t think we should under estimate the value of the non-developer, non coder’s first experience in using the SAFE Network.
Yes, Per Nick it looks like they got it though. Full scope search awaits.
I don’t think enough non programmer/ non Bitcoin/ non decentralized tech folks will know about it like we do. We’ll help push it along and guide devs in what features we’re interested in and things will build and as features grow so will a user base. I’ve seen things and come back later quite impressed before. Even as a decentralized Dropbox implementation (prolly one of it’s most basic but important of features) the safe network will be the best out there. So I want search from the get go but there is a lot of low level work to be done it seems.
As a non dev, I’m still a bit confused as to what the position is in regard to search. I’m not clear why luckybit posted the American dept of defense’s search as a solution, nor how “make your own” is any kind of answer either - unless the Network is only intended for devs. The roadmap for beta launch states:
Search engine platform capabilities (not the engine itself, only the ability to easily create one or integrate with existing indexes)
Can I ask how “easy” it is to create one and how long would it take and does anybody have any intention of making one? Also,as none of this is going to happen until after Beta launch, then as Warren pointed out this is going to hinder adoption quite severely due to lack of usability for people like me I think.
If this is not going to be implemented until some future point and as there also seems to be issues around “dynamic” websites, then (as Janitor mentioned) I see a use case for something like Namecoin, at least in the interim. Can this be integrated somehow, or does it not work like that?
I’m asking these questions as an “average Joe” on behalf of others like me, looking to use the new de-centralised internet - not as a techie or dev.
Before there was a web search engine there was user to user sharing… it was fun, and exciting to find cool new things and try stuff out and tell others about it. Haphazard discovery: “hey, this is cool Al_kafir, try it out…”
Early adopters love this. It’s a buzz, it’s fun, it’s human. Things get around very well, particularly in the early stages when there isn’t an enormous “haystack” to rifle through.
Soon one of the things people are sharing are their lists of favourite places, apps, features etc on this cool thing called SAFE.
Next come the indexes and libraries, and as soon as its big enough to need it, the search engines.
Don’t worry I say, be excited instead!
I get what you are saying and I can understand where you are coming from and I’m also excited…but what it boils down to is “word of mouth”, rather than “advertising/” or “listing” one’s services. This works for me in the real world in regard to my small scale self-employed job (if you have to advertise, then you can’t be that good so to speak), however I’m not so sure the Internet should work that way - I would need a lot more convincing.
Even doing things this way would entail having some central meeting place/resource/site to visit to find stuff out…and we’d need to know where that was.
Also I don’t see how websites would generate enough revenue from word of mouth only.
I think I just want to know how one would find the needle once the haystack starts growing, but can’t see the haystack growing at all if there is no search, as no incentive to build a website in the first place if nobody can find it.
Is it an easy thing to build, would it take long and do you see any kind of role for something like Namecoin? Cheers
Edit: I also thought it was quite important for security reasons to start off with as large a Network as possible –having a working search would help facilitate this I think. Is the Network going to be large enough initially anyway, or would a smaller initial Network cause issues prior to it becoming larger with a working search?
I think what I’m looking for essentially is somebody sticking their hand up, saying “I plan on making one, it will take me a couple of weeks and it will be a piece o’ piss”……basically.
Actually, surely this is the most essential “killer” app - why isn’t everyone planning on making one?..lol
I’ve concur completely. There is opportunity for a new open source search model with built in user up-voting features to cull out noise. One that isn’t increasingly based on bribery. More and more I’ve started to understand that search is so central Google thinks it is the internet. And yet Google is based on a sinking ship. Sponsorship corrupts absolutely, at first its a mining of goodwill but sooner or later it’s mayhem.
I think my major concern is as you touched upon - that it would be a major marketing disaster to publicise and try to attract users without a working search in place. All the average Joes would dismiss and slate it as un-usable. I’m not suggesting this is the case, just that this will be the general perception among the non-techie public.
I would certainly suggest keeping the powder dry until such a point as a working search is enabled.
Any news on this? Does MaidSafe have a plan to develop integrated network-wide search capabilities? I’d like to know, since I’m designing a plan for a SAFE search project.
There are a couple of RFCs in for launcher right now, but more to do with infrastructure as opposed to specific features like search I’m afraid. This will be something to think about, and I’m sure a few of the team have given this some thought already, but the details have not been well considered at this point. Sorry I can’t give you a more concrete answer.
Yes, yes, yes! Great news.
I’m sure the SAFE team will be excited to release a major update here and there, like the DNS example binaries. Just like most all of the features not being in that binary – say that there’s a future release but with no search feature (for one thing or another), but every single core area is complete. I’m guessing a flood of people will use it, to get the early advantage on farming/etc. (if there even is anything of the such). But not the max amount of people possible. … It’s really up to the team whether or not they consider this information and what is done with it (e.g. release it with search, or release it without).