Why pay to browse?

why pay to browse?needs better explanation. if things are to complicated, then people wont do it

browsing is free, you only pay if you want to upload some information


I would suggest reading the primer for a more clear understanding of how the network, works.

Famers run vaults which allow for permanent storage on the network and in such a way where nothing can be censored. To upload into the network, it costs SafeCoin because Farmers are paid SafeCoin for running the vaults. Otherwise what incentive what farmers have to contribute their own hardware and resources to such a massive extent?

It is the same sort of an idea as if someone were to run an Internet server on the regular internet. Doing so, costs. Being compensated for that cost, is definitely incentive to continue doing it.

To the best of my understanding, the cost of uploading data in SafeCoin is going to be ridiculously cheap because obviously if no one can afford to upload, why would anyone do it?

Though no one can absolutely claim what will or won’t happen with the future of SafeNet, in my opinion – the uploading process will turn into this:

Farmers who own vaults will most likely also run SafeNet sites, especially seeing as they are already running a vault, so why not – right? Once a vault is earning enough SafeCoin, I’d imagine that some of those Farmers might run sites such as for hypothetical example: something equivalent to YouTube. In otherwords: a site in which its users can upload for free, and the farmer is paying the SafeCoin cost for it. This is the same idea where as we can all currently upload to YouTube for free, and YouTube absolutely spends money on server resources, bandwidth and so on – but they are a large enough company that they do not have to charge the user for the privilege. I imagine that SafeNet equivalents are inevitable.

Plus imagine this scenario:

A company that already has a lot of money to burn creates such a SafeNet site that allows its users to upload content to it at no charge, and the site itself pays the cost. Just like YouTube, the site would have other ways that it pays for its expenses.

One must understand that SafeNet is not some new software application that is competing with other similar software applications. SafeNet is ground-level infrastructure meant to completely and entirely replace the current Internet infrastructure that currently exists.

The Internet as we know it today was built by hobbiests and businesses and hard core computer geeks in general. It had humble beginnings and grew over time. SafeNet is exactly this sort of thing. To begin with, it is going to begin itself with a very select demographic. The exact same type of select demographic which built the Internet as we know it, in the first place.

In the early days of the Internet, most humans did not know what the Internet was. It existed, but most people were not aware of it. As people started becoming aware of it, only people who had the aptitude to use it, used it. For everyone else: it was this mysterious thing that they heard that some people did, but most people did not do.

As it evolved, it became easier and easier for more and more people to be able to access and use without being hard core geeks or business owners. The Internet as we know it took 30 years to evolve. SafeNet will evolve in a mere fraction of that time. But even so, it will take a bit of time and just as with the Internet as we currently know it, the beginnings of it as always, will start with a select demographic of dedicated geek pioneers.

Everything begins at the beginning.


This is all speculative today as safecoin hasn’t been developed yet.

I personally would rather see people being paid by others accessing their content, and everyone starting off having to buy some safecoin to browse. Known accounts may receive free safecoin every day to browse but should pay at some point if they are heavy users of the network.

I read somewhere in the safe docs (Quora comments perhaps) that people actually get PAID the more their content is accessed, instead of paying and having to collect manually from whoever accessed it. That to me seems to be the way better model. Of course, someone could just clone their content and convince people to download THEIR stuff instead.

I don’t know why people keep thinking that there is some sort of “pay to browse” thing that DOES NOT EXIST. There is no “pay to browse” with SafeNet. Period. No pay to browse. Thats not how it works.

Please read the SafeNet Primer. Thanks!


Read it again. I didn’t say there is one, but some of us are saying there should be.

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Yeah, this has been discussed under the name “pay the producer” (PtP) quite a lot on this forum. There may be an application for it, but it would be on top of the underlying pay-to-PUT/proof-of-resource farming economy as laid out in the Primer and elsewhere.

If such does come into being, it will not be in the first live iteration of the network, I think.


Ah, okay. I personally don’t think there should be, because then it defeats the whole point of the network and just becomes yet another example of the dysfunctions the world already has, but merely being expressed at a high point of creativity and complexity.

I have no issue with people being compensated for their work. I just feel that this has to be done in all of the creative ways that society typically rages against because they are afraid of the new and addicted to sameness.

Though there is no shortage of new beneficial technology paradigms that at first people raged at and fought hard against that we all take for granted today, I’m just going to mention two more recent ones.

Wikipedia. At the beginning, no one thought Wikipedia could succeed because they could not imagine the idea of anyone wanting to add to a public human knowledge-base without “being paid for it”. Everyone from economists to psychiatrists to scientists thought that it would be an instant fail and yet it has succeeded and it has succeeded in a world where everything requires money.

FOSS (Free Open Source Software). It might seem counter-intuitive to the present human condition, but there is more money in giving things away than charging, as FOSS has proven over and over and over again. Free and Open Source Software is exactly as its name describes, and therefore no one is “charged” for using it. And yet, FOSS has made countless billions of dollars and especially within the business world and primarily within the realm of Linux. Everything from Android Phones to Amazon Fire Tablets to Smart TV Operating Systems have been possible because of FOSS.

SafeNet is just yet another one of these sorts of paradigms that will prove itself with the test of time but in the mean time, will be the cause of much cognitive dissonance.

I think that SMT (Social Media Tokens) have the best potential for a PTP system. I do intend on eventually writing a post about SMT, its fails, its successes, lessons learned and how the concept is relevant to SafeNet.

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One of the stated goals of Maidsafe is that GET of data (browsing) is Free. So yes we know now and do not need to wait for safecoin implementation.

That is the network rewarding people for adding content to the network. It does not come from people browsing and paying to browse. The paying to PUT and the paying of rewards are actually not directly linked. The network charges for resources and destroys the coins used to pay for PUT balances. Then independently the network pays rewards for various things and they too are independent of each other. There is a linking factor between them (farming rate), but there is no effect of one reward on another and no effect from paying for resources and paying of any rewards. As long as the algo is correct there will be enough paid to the network for the network to pay the rewards later on.

So the goal of Maidsafe in developing SAFEcoin is that the network itself as its own entity charges for resources (storing/messaging/etc) and destroys the coins it receives. These coin addresses then become available to the network for it to recreate coins at those addresses when needed.

Then separately the network as its own entity will reward certain activity. Like farming chunks is rewarded at the farming rate. Then separately App Developers are rewarded at 10% of farming rate according to the GETting of the APP’s chunks etc. And also desired by David and the team is for the network to reward people who upload content that is used and this is named PtP (pay the provider). The desired effect of PtP is to encourage uploading of content that people want to access, thus only paying rewards when that content is read from the network, which should then encourage higher and higher quality content rather than junk content. Junk content will not be accessed when there is high quality content readily available. PtP is not certain at this time though.

In any case it is the network out of its own resources that pay the farmers and the App developers and if implemented the content providers.


Agree with you buddy browsing is free.

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Have you analyzed the economics of this thoroughly? Is there a report on it online somewhere?

what is the definition of uploading and downloading?- even when you are browsing arent you download and uploading?. ty


SAFE charges a “PUT” to store/change data. And senseless to try and say it charges for a GET request.