What’s up today?

The world is really going to hell in a hand cart :weary:

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:joy:

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Lots of comments…

You can read them here.

https://beta.regulations.gov/document/FINCEN-2020-0020-0001/comment

A sample…

People are pissed.

This is an invasive and archaic attempt to control something that by its nature, is uncontrollable.
This short-sighted suffocation will only hasten the greatest global transfer of wealth in recent history, while also leaving America in the lonely position of witness, but not participant.
it’s happening with or without you, and more of these ironfisted intrusions will chase activities underground, causing you to spend more to control less.
Hands off the crypto markets, drop the silly crypto to crypto trade taxation ruling, and instead make it taxation upon cashing out to fiat.
Anything else will only send it further from your reach.

Good day.

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5 posts were merged into an existing topic: American Politics

Don’t give up on the old spinning platters yet!

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I added an automatic translation of the weekly news and shared it in Twitter and Facebook

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Looking forward to a phone running SAFEos
Not just an app on my phone but where my phone boots up into the Safe Network and its not able to connect with the clear net.

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You are a legend @Dimitar !

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It’ll happen. Using a pine phone or similar and a little hacking. SafeOS will be born. :wink:

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Future Android ROM idea.

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You could still be tracked to some extent if you connect to a cellular network.

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As it stands that is the only approach that makes any sense.

I wish the UK HMRC had two brain cells to rub together… I did a FOI request with basic challenge of the guidance and had to kick them with ICO before getting “Error: Not an answer”! They seem unable to engage with a problem they do not understand.

abc rant: If you list a billion numbers and call them tokens add cryptosigning then sell one for a dollar, it does not make you a billionaire!.. if you talk with someone else who’s done the same, about the prospect that in future those tokens will have some market or actual utility linking perhaps to real world assets and swap half a billion tokens, nothing has occurred - except speculation… but they will try to tax it, where there is no market… that’s enervating innovation risk, which is exactly at odds with what Government should be doing. It’s like dealing with crypto noobs!!.. waiting for them to learn the bleeding obvious, is the only option. :grimacing:

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They are missing the point. HMRC want to tax the trade - any and all trades - not just ones involving fiat. If they didn’t do this, people would find money substitutions and use them instead and avoid the tax.

It has long been thus, well before crypto. You can’t use barter to avoid tax, whether it is fishes for bread or ETH for BTC. The state will tax trade, no matter how it is completed. You don’t get to have free trade.

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It’s not missing the point, if it’s clearly error from the approach currently taken.
What HMRC etc wants, is beside the point - reality matters.
So much of Government ignores reality and errors like this!!

The point is that it is NOT consistent with other CGT, where capital does exist. The point at which these two opinions collide is later down the road, where tokens are bound to real utility and/or real world assets that count as capital. That is not the case with I would argue every crypto currency in play atm… even BTC only becomes real when converted to fiat or real asset like cup of coffee/lamborgini/house/etc. Speculation about something will have value later, is not value now - despite that being the absurd follow-on from the way .gov has printed money in the last few decades… this is not the same.

Also, HMRC and their kind, would do better aligning with this properly now because it sets up a better return in future. If they position at odds with common sense, they will do themselves a disservice as well as those who suffer them.

What if you are trading a token, representing a cup off tea or a lambo? Indeed, what is fiat, if not a token by another name? Fiat used to define itself as a token for gold, in fact.

If they allow trades to go untaxed, they will open a door way for a black economy and they know it. They aren’t stupid. Therefore, they will continue to tax all trades, no matter how abstract the stuff is being exchanged.

To put it another way if swapping labour for crypto is no longer a tax event, what do you think people will demand payment in? Where do you think this leads for the concept of the state and taxation in general?

Maybe there are details of this change outside of what I am aware of, but I can see why they are nervous. With anonymous transactions, their fears are multiplied. They are a middle man who does not want to be cut out.

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Today, the UK High Court has quashed a decision by the Investigatory Powers Tribunal (IPT), and ruled that section 5 of the Intelligence Services Act (ISA) 1994 does not permit the issuing of general warrants to authorise property interference and certain forms of computer hacking.

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That is a real trade of something that is capital… no issue with that … but show me the token that does that. It’s possible they exist but I would be surprised, since .gov is several steps behind ensuring the environment exists - that is that the law acknowledges the reality of those kind of tokens. It’s a couple of years since I tracked altcoins more closely but I doubt very much that anything has changed. (Ripple might be an exception as they were always not really crypto and aligned to established big banking but that is different kind of stupid and not to be confused with other).

but that you challenge is a “what if” from the future afaik… most every token atm is imaginary. As the example above of creating “tokens” from nothing shows… most of the tokens that exists do not have a market to back them up… taxing trades like this is bogus atm … the only valid exchange where CGT is fair and reasonable is at the boundary of cryptocurrency/assets… and I wouldn’t mind if that was 20%… UK I think would default at 10% but it’s orders of magnitude wrong pitched as it is. You could be liable for more that ever existed… and post dated awareness is a key issue here too. The HMRC and others fouled up their guidance and they need to fix it… looking forwards to the future not backwards like it is.

#offtopic apologies but :grimacing: it grates

Capital gains are only for the gains. Buy at 100 and sell at 105 and the tax is a percentage on the 5 only. So it should never be more than exists.

I don’t agree that tokens have no capital. The whole concept of a token is that it represents something else, as a placeholder. MAID is a placeholder for digital resources (space, cpu, etc), for example. Eth is for distributed compute or sorts.

Even at the most generic, cash is a substitute for energy, labour, etc. Fiat is just a token too. The difference is, fiat is the state’s chosen token. It is what they control, what they collect tax in, what courts settle debts in. These special attributes are what gives fiat tokens value. It’s what keeps the state in the middle of everything.

Do we really expect the state to give up fiat’s privileged position? Do we really expect them to step aside and wave through an alternative that cuts them out?

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