What happens during global outages (EMP, solar flareups) and considerations

I dare to differ a little here. Both assets have features that can be compared, and some cannot be compared. Both have useful features that work in certain circumstances, and not in other circumstances. I’ll tell you one rather extreme situation where the fragile and complicated infrastructure of Safecoin (and any other crypto currency for that matter) doesn’t help.

A nuclear EMP will bring Safecoin down instantly, for example. Gold and silver can then still be used.

“Russian and Chinese military scientists in open source writings describe the basic principles of nuclear weapons designed specifically to generate an enhanced-EMP effect, that they term “Super-EMP” weapons. “Super-EMP” weapons, according to these foreign open source writings, can destroy even the best protected U.S. military and civilian electronic systems.”


If you are envisioning a total an permanent electricity outage, the absolute lack of electricity would cause a total collapse of the society: no financial system, no life support systems at hospitals, no refrigeration, no productivity. Absolute chaos.
In such situation money and precious metals will become worthless, only food, medicine, weapons and shelter will have bartering value.

Such scenario is unlikely. There are legitimate worries about solar storms, which are more likely to happen than a nuclear EMP, and because of that key infrastructure has begun to be hardened against EMP attacks since the Obama administration.

Btw, with datachains, the SafeNetwork could recover from a total global outage
And if mesh+safenetwork is fully integrated, it would be practically impossible to take it down.


Such a state would last for a time, but it would be over after the immediate recovery. Precious metals would soon become valuable again because they are just too convenient as means of exchange and storing value. So, if you’re a prepper, you can’t not stash some silver and gold somewhere safe and hidden. Preferably in small coins.

Yes, mesh networking (and operating system security, see e.g. Genode) will need to be the next to addressed.

If something happens that’s big enough to cause a global outage, then I’m not sure many will worry about data safety and retention…


That was the corollary of my previous comment…

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And water and (solar) energy I would like to add. But I’m sorry, you are very wrong here. It’s a common misunderstanding about bartering and the role precious metals play in bartering transactions.

My grandparents who were young in WW1 and had set up a family in WW2, lost their family jewelry in the winter of 1944/1945 exchanging it for food and wood to burn a fire. More recent, in Argentina, in the midst of complete meltdown and monetary chaos, when people were shooting each other in the streets for food on a daily basis, gold and silver became king, and still are in the bartering communities. And you know why that is? Because under any circumstances, total chaos or not, the value of items in a bartering transaction don’t have to match. So the difference in value has to be met by something else with universal value. Enter gold and silver.


Shooting people for food? Were are you getting this?
This never happened in Argentina.

There were some riots and opportunistic looting, yes, but no shootings.
You are painting it like it was a total collapse of the society, with some kind of civil war going on. That is not what happened, that is how the populist Peronist parties wanted to paint it.
Most of the violence was incited by the Machiavellian opposition to exacerbate the crisis, people weren’t stealing because of hunger, they are politically inciting disorder to force the president to renounce.
And the opportunists were taking advantage of the chaos, stealing TVs and computers, not food.

The anarcho-marxist peronists are attempting to do the same shit with the current government, but fortunately this president is more competent and that incendiary spark is not enough this time to light the social unrest like before.
There are plenty of proof of these type of manipulations, they even blatantly admit it on camera that their mission is to destabilize the current government.

So, I get your point, but the Argentine case is not the right example.

PS: If you are exchanging expensive jewelery for food and wood, you are inadvertently admitting with that example that the value of gold has crashed. What $500 dollar ring is equivalent to worth $5 of food, and you must exchange it because food is way more valuable than a piece of jewelry.
If the conditions worsens the trader who bartered food for jewelery will regret that decision.
It’s utility value are more important in crises.

Maybe this is not the best topic to go deeper into the Argentinian issues some 15+ years ago, but when I read in several articles (Wikipedia, NY Times) that there were (also) food riots and that handfuls of people died in shootings, I tend to believe that given the political, financial and economical chaos in Argentina in that era.

Last thing I’m going to post about it, here’s a report of an eyewitness who speaks of at least 39 people being killed on the day that President Fernando de la Rúa fled his residence by helicopter.

And there were shootings.

“The worst of the violence occurred between 3pm and 5pm. By that stage, more hardened protesters were hurling rocks at police, who were no longer responding with just gases and rubber bullets, but firing live rounds directly into the crowds. In clashes near Av. de Mayo and Tacuarí, three protestors – Gastón Riva (30), Diego Lamagna (27), and Carlos Almirón (24) – received fatal wounds.”

And you state “you are inadvertently admitting with that example that the value of gold has crashed.”. No, very wrong again. It’s the other way round. The price of an item, in any supply-demand situation, is determined by scarcity and what someone is willing to give up for it, to obtain the scarce item. So it’s the value of food exploding higher, not the value of gold crashing.


Dude I am Argentinean, I don’t really care what articles you find online. As an outsider, your understanding of it will always be incomplete.
There were deaths, yes, and there was repression, but it wasn’t due to hunger as you initially portrayed, people weren’t fighting each other for food.
It was a political move to twist the arm of the government, they were attacking the police force and causing chaos, the objective was to paint the government as a repressive state.

Do you want to learn about the Montoneros group? Go read a bit about the Argentinean history, that mentality persists today. Current “Kirchnerist groups” (leftists loyal to the previous president) are attempting to use the same strategies to destabilize the current government, and it is commonly heard among these groups that they are just trying to create the “first death” to initiate the same cascade of protests and riots to destabilize the government.
Fortunately the level of approval of the current president Macri is still high enough to leverage social strife to incite riots.

You should stop insisting on the Argentine case, it is a really bad example to support your position.
Having so many crises to choose from, you had to choose the one that is not applicable.
You should have chosen Venezuela which is submerged in an absolute economic collapse, and guess what, they prefer a roll of toilet paper rather than a lump of gold.

Btw, I assure you that gold will have value as long as it has an exchange value. The more critical the situation it becomes the more the trader will regret having given food for a piece of metal.

Gold and silver still suck in a lot of other ways. Even big computers and new math and maturing economic theory and techniques can hardly handle them.

Depending what you expect from gold and silver, they will suck in a million ways. But with all its flaws, it has been the only money earth has known for thousands of years. And when we really started to explore the earth, it has been upgraded. And it never lost that status. And I might be wrong, but I don’t think so: It won’t loose that status for hundreds of years to come. Because all other pretending-to-be money solutions have even more flaws, risks, limitations. And yes, that includes bitcoin and other crypto currencies.

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I get the impression from economists Ive heard on the subject that the tech and theory to stabilize gold/silver is only now appearing but even so a crapshoot. But always a fall back. Most obvious but far from the most basic issue includes things like enticing invasion, theft and most wonderful of all some country discovers 10x what the rest of the earth has- defuncting the gold or repeating bits of the chronic petrol bailout game. Also even without it causing people to expend more on digging up a resource we don’t need more of, but a lot less extreme than the petrol bail out case. Petrol has been endlez subsidies and baouts for 50-70 years.