What does Safe Network mean to you? What are you looking for in Safe Network?

A world computer for secure perpetual data storage, computation, and communication.

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I want Safe Network to be a new democratising, decentralised web/internet platform.

By which I mean a place where anyone can participate equally, where those with lots of money don’t have a significant advantage over those without, because the costs of scaling, and options for earning from your work shift the balance of power from wealth and monopoly to creativity.

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Thanks for sharing your idea pal. Really opened my eyes.

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Easiest goal is to have “uncensorable torrents”.
Even with this basic feature alone, SN will be very useful.

More complex goal - ability for network to execute arbitrary algorithms.
In such way decentralized applications will be possible.
(I’m sceptical about usefullness of client-side code alone)


upd. More generic idea - is to be able provide your resources to network and use resources, which other people provide.
For example, I may not need power of 1 CPU for 24 hours, but later I may need power of 24 CPUs for 1 hour.

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  • A historical record of myself and the times I lived in that I never have to worry about losing. Photos, videos, writings, projects and so on preserved for the future without having to make new copies all the time.
  • Having a platform for robust decentralized social media apps to provide refuge from big tech and putting the internet back in the hands of the people.
  • A single host for all my programming projects that allows saving and loading without me having to set up a server.
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I was drawn into the SAFE network for the same idea you were… that user’s would own their data and be able to control what applications were allowed to access and could do with the data as well.

Unfortunately, at least for me, a recent inquiry I posted to the community has convinced me that the SAFE network is not really going to be able to satisfy this particular objective.

Is SAFE still an overlay network? - Features - Safe Network Forum (safenetforum.org)

Yes, a user will be able to control the access that an application is granted to your SAFE data, however it doesn’t appear that the SAFE network will impose any constraints on what an application can do with that data once it has access. It is entirely possible that applications will siphon off that data and store it for their own usage as well as meta and tracking data, not really much differently than they do now.

This isn’t to say that the SAFE network doesn’t provide value for a lot of other objectives. It will be a remarkable advance in the technology of decentralized/distributed data. It just isn’t going to change in any meaningful how an average user’s data is exploited and their activities are tracked because it leaves it in the hands of individual users to determine which applications they can trust.

IMHO the vast majority of the loss of control over data and privacy for most user’s is not someone hacking in some backdoor to steal their data… more likely they have given it away to run applications they genuinely want to use, often for free. In general, application developers feel entitled to user data, and their right to monetize it as compensation for the functionality you get from using their application. Hey, and I am sure many of them inform you about what they are doing with your data is right there on Page 14 of the Terms and Conditions link in the footer… if only anyone would read it.

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As is explained in the thread you linked, nothing has changed in this respect. Browser apps are tightly controlled and can’t do things with your data without your permission.

It was never possible for Safe Network (or any other) to control what a native app can do on your device because that’s determined by your operating system and its configuration.

One day there will I expect be a Safe OS, in which case you can expect much more security and control over data.

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The current internet provides a bit of freedom but with broken or null response to the need for privacy and security; there’s every reason to wonder that a good option on privacy and/or security will allow for ways to better control use of data - and in ways that we cannot imagine just yet because so much will be a compound robust response to that opportunity.

We lack the tools and privacy and security are critical to providing real useable autonomy to individuals and groups. Those who do not get it, really need to spend more time wonder about this as it is orders of magnitude more utility than the current internet allows… and that alone has done a lot … but it is broke.

We need data security and we need privacy and user choice, those go far beyond the standard model.

There are always ways to talk down and be cynical about progress but the reality of progress is that it looks different. The trouble with the dullness that is normal, is the resistance to change. Still, everyone in the crowd will have there one point of getting what is new and why it is important to them and much of that will follow individual apps that is not just about the sum total of all possibilities… similar to memes in the way that what works will surprise everyone. First though a solid base from which to reach forward…

As for the OP question, the list of what I hope for from Safe Network is too long as I wonder that with privacy; security; and freedom, it is so well centred on the nature of reality and what human activity is, that it allows opportunity to cater for all.

Still, there are clear immediate issues with data security and even basic simple applications, like immutable data storage, are becoming really important to huge industries… and interestingly what cloud storage is available does not always pan out in the way expected. Recurring costs perhaps will lend a hand, encouraging responsible owners of data to take Safe Network seriously… in time once proven of course.

What I’m looking for is medium term flexibility that allows real utility and user interfaces that can cater to the mainstream normal user - so, people should not need to think about the tech and just have confidence in it.

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This is exactly what I want - to be allowed and able to determine what and whom to trust. Not some company. Not the government. Me.

I reckon the biggest problem is, and will be, obscure hardware.

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(I’m sceptical about usefullness of client-side code alone)

I’m curious what you are wanting to do where network execution would be the solution.

The main limit I see to client-side code is keeping things hidden from users (eg keeping enemy movements hidden in a videogame).

Only thing I can think of would be maybe indexing and processing data submitted by users for faster access.

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Same tasks, which are running on servers in regular networks.

Checking if user uploads correct data to service.
For image hosting, there should be images and not executables for example.

Generation of low resolution versions of content.

Statistics collection - how many files users uploaded to the service, how many comments they left.

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There are loads of things that need to happen that will only be possible on something like Safe.

A social network, like Diaspora, that gives the user control, and can’t be owned by one entity.

A way of sharing files of any size just by sending a URL. This should have already been possible for the last several decades though, so maybe this is a bit much to ask for…

A cryptocurrency with enough population-engagement to halt bitcoin and other environmentally-unfriendly technologies.

A way for people to upload content without fear that the hosting company will go under or an oppressive regime will censor it.

A better instant messaging protocol.

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Hi arsnebula,

I too came here from this point of view, but feel the exact wording of your expectiations describe an oxymoron.

One of the key opportunities decentralising our information provides is simply a paradigm whereby you could feasibly have a unique repository that represents you within a digital space.

Within this repository where you store your actual information, the only data that should then need be publicly revealed is the single unique key for your repository itself, this would essentially be your public identity.

Now the distinction is how that data is then handled,

The typical information captured by any service or website is your full name, address and date of birth, and the excuse for this is for them to do what we have already accomplished above, to create a unique profile that differentiates you from the next Joe Bloggs using their service.

In a perfect world, services would be using protocols that are designed to determine the validity of data but without exposing the data itself, so the service needn’t capture your details, only to process them in order to facilitate whatever action that instigated the requirement in the first place.

In this way your personal information need never be given away in the first place but can still be used to verify your identity if and when needed.

This is easy enough to say, but there are plenty examples where this still falls flat as it is, but the general concept remains, the less information you have to give away in the first place, the closer we are to true freedom of privacy.

Of course, we don’t live in a perfect world, far from it, and there is no shortage of “individual” and might I say polarising perspectives and philosophies, this is singularly one of the greatest aspects of our species and also the most conflicting.

Unfortunately there never will be a single answer to obtaining and maintaining true freedom, it isn’t obvious to most, but freedom means something different to everyone and is largely based on the accumulated interpretations of each individual’s experiences, as well as to a lesser degree their social and cultural influences.

And there will always be someone who finds a way to subvert these systems, of the platform itself.

Hell, our governments only survive by the contributions of their society, and governing that society requires a certian level of control, it is a constant balance we will never truly win and hope to god we never lose either.

Sorry for the rant, I guess I just wanted to say, no one should see this as a cure, there is no cure of the subjects being discussed, but this does have a lot of potential to change the current landscape and that is exciting in itself.

This is also only the beginning.

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Checking if user uploads correct data to service.
For image hosting, there should be images and not executables for example.

That can be done client-side. If it’s the wrong type of data, show an error message to the user.

Generation of low resolution versions of content.

Statistics collection - how many files users uploaded to the service, how many comments they left.

Ok, now you have me thinking. As I said, processing and organizing data is something I could see a use for.

Verifying the result would be a non-trivial task. You’d not only have to verify the result of the initial execution is correct, but also that the data you’re looking at is actually the result of the initial execution. And you’d have to do this every single time someone uploads data to your service.

It could be a nice feature to have eventually, but I think in the near term, calculations should be performed client-side if possible, and using a central authority if not.

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User will need to download wrong object to see what’s inside.
It may be also larger than expected.

So theoretically, yes, it is possible, but with inconvenience.

I don’t completely understand what are you talking about.
If you mean that just asking random node to execute code is a bad idea, then yes, of course.
At least several nodes should execute the same code and results should be compared by the network.
But, maybe, even different programming language should be invented to make reliable distributed computations possible.

Without distributed computing, developers will be forced to use traditional servers.

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User will need to download wrong object to see what’s inside.
It may be also larger than expected.

Sure, but that’s true on the clearnet too. It would be good if the SAFE Network had a way of showing filesize without downloading, though.

I don’t completely understand what are you talking about.
If you mean that just asking random node to execute code is a bad idea, then yes, of course.
At least several nodes should execute the same code and results should be compared by the network.
But, maybe, even different programming language should be invented to make reliable distributed computations possible.

I’m just saying that’s not a simple thing.

I guess the way I would do it is to reserve a specific namespace for “X data as processed by Y algorithm”. Nodes would have to be designed to refuse to acknowledge and PUTs to that space that haven’t been verified as such. I’m not saying it couldn’t be done, but this seems like something we shouldn’t expect immediately after launch.

I suppose if it’s a decentralized app, the uploader would be the one paying for this processing? And if a lot of people are uploading at once there could be collision issues. Again, not saying it can’t be done, just that it’s not a simple task.

Without distributed computing, developers will be forced to use traditional servers.

I still see that as a win if those servers are limited to data processing. Rather than needing a server accessible 24/7 in a datacenter, you could connect your home computer to the network once a day to process the day’s input.

EDIT: And also, this could be set up to where the “server” software is available for download and can be run by anyone if the original goes offline.

That will be obtained from the datamap I would expect

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It is … chars

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Only if service owner decided not to implement any checks.
Of course, it is possible to make service like it was done 20 years ago.
But it do not means that it is the good goal.
Better than nothing however.

Users are too used to 24/7 availability of service.
They usually will not wait 24 hours to be able to upload file )

Bitcoin was a pretty obvious upgrade to anyone paying attention to economics. This network is—at bare minimum—one order of magnitude above anything in this space. Even as a lay person that is obvious. I’m here to crush authoritarianism.