What do you expect from Alpha 2?

All sounds good, though as the mail app is only intended as a developer demo, I guess it’ll need a team to develop it further into a consumer facing app and maintain it.

My biggest hope for Alpha 2 is that it’ll include non-hosted valuts, as if this can be done with stability, the Safe network becomes pretty much inevitable.

I also hope more 3rd party apps (even if rough) start coming through to demonstrate the developer community involvement.

8 Likes

The mail app is intended as a tutorial so developers in the community can flesh it out unless I have misread things.

I’d love to see an IRC-like app, dunno if the current API’s support that though or we need MPID messaging first.

6 Likes

I would like to see stable vaults. This is a fundamental feature of safe net and probably the most contentious and difficult.

It is great to show what else the network can do, but until it is truly distributed via private vaults, it is still centralised. It may be distributed between the managed nodes, which is great, but this obviously isn’t the full vision of the project.

14 Likes

That’s true. but what I’ve seen we have a simple and working App right now. Why not put it in the package with the installers?? And say something like: “We’ve added the SAFE Mail app as a POC as we hope external devs workout this idea.”

1 Like

I would like to see the APIs freeze for a while :slight_smile: things move faster than I manage to learn !
but that is just my very self centric feeling.

Just as @Traktion said, I would love to see vaults get out of the kindergarden too ! Maybe they need to be kept warm and secure for a while though.

3 Likes

The Disjoint Groups RFC needs to be implemented first I think. After that several optimizations as I understand this reply correctly.

3 Likes

Definitely, this is like the last major piece of the grand puzzle of SAFE to be completed.

I’m guessing that data chains will help this. But it’s a hard problem to solve. But sounds like Alpha 2 should definitely have it

Also… TestSafeCoin!!

4 Likes

Vaults are a hot topic. Seems everybody needs affirmation that it is indeed on a nearby horizon.
I get the feeling no amount of bells and whistles on the client side will compare to data integrity. Hope it can be demonstrated within the next 3 weeks. Perhaps a layman’s explanation on how data chains are progressing will suffice.

4 Likes

Disjoin Group secure the network and allows the existence of DataChain, but the latter is key to make the network fast enough and the data resilient. Both are critical to see groups of users Vaults running at fast pace.

1 Like

I would hope to see progress with managing and limiting the affect that weak vaults and bandwidth can have. Stability of data is critical and it’s an interesting problem how vaults earn kudos.

Later then it would be great to see some form of archive capability, where nodes can go offline and return in a useful way.

Somewhere in parallel providing whatever random new devs need to fast track their ability to engage; then later on safecoin and perhaps tease the world of cryptocurrency with options to make blockchains and other tokens in SAFE.

Nice to see trivia like email suddenly being available… more surprised that are not on Tuesday evenings are always welcome :smiley:

6 Likes

Vaults, Vaults and more Vaults. This is what the Safenet is all about. Nailing this down will bring all the investment Maidsafe needs to flourish. Hopefully this can be rolled out before the end of the funding run with BNK Future. It may well be crucial.

6 Likes

This is a good idea. A last resort if it cannot [quote=“Savage, post:9, topic:11186”]
be demonstrated within the next 3 weeks.
[/quote]

1 Like

Sure, but how will stale data (dead apps, dead user data) go away?
Since the network maintains stored chunks, more dead weight will accumulate too.
I second the archive idea.

I know there’s a lot of push for vaults but my opinion is that at this point it’s great for vaults to be separate while apps on the client side are pushed forward hard. Mail app is a great start but there’s a long way to go in terms of basic functionality and UI.

Vaults will take as long as they take to get all the different aspects in line (variable node capacity, data chains, etc., etc.), but we’ve got the core of stuff right now running on the cloud network for devs to go nuts on apps. And more capabilities will be added quickly, I think, to increase those capabilities through the roof.

My immediate wish list:

Refined mail app (with Reply button!)
Browser integration
Community directory app so we can find each other, find websites, etc.
A blogging app
A blogging app with comment sections
One on one chat app

That’s just for starters of what I think the existing capabilities of the stable hosted network allows right not (most of it anyway) or will pretty quickly.

Time for independent app devs to get engaged and go nuts! The team will certainly be coming out with more example apps that will help, but the key functionality is there for most all of the above (or will be very quickly).

Then when the vaults package is ready to go (the really hard part) we’ll be much more ready to put the dragster in gear.

9 Likes

This is a BIG ask for me personally…

All-in-One Interface

Right now we are making individual APPS, one by one. It’s understandable to start small, and focus on basic functionality. But that isn’t how most people surf the internet. Just about everything is done through your browser.

Imagine many APPS opening and asking for permission from the launcher. 1 or 2 may not seem like a big deal. But when you have to do this 10+ times per login… it becomes tiresome.

I wrote about this awhile ago. See the post below.

Obviously a LOT has changed which led us to where we are today. So what can we do going forward?


Perhaps, we can download a SAFE Network Bundle, which is the (SAFE Launcher) + (SAFE Browser) + (selected APPS).

Step 1. Create an account from the SAFE Launcher and Log in.
Step 2. Configure your SAFE Browser by “adding” SAFE APPS as plugins.
Step 3. Open your “customized” SAFE Browser and have fun!

Step 1
This is already done.

Step 2
This requires a SAFE APP STORE where APPS are uploaded and rated by other users. Some APPS will be free while others charge Safecoin.
OR
This requires the SAFE Browser to have APP “options” users can select during the download.

EITHER way… the goal is to create 1 seamless interface with multiple functionality. But also giving the user “choice” in selecting and modifying which APPS they want to use in their browser bundle.

Step 3
Once your APPS have been added/selected, then you only need to open the SAFE Browser and get permission once. The APPS you added/selected are part of your SAFE Browser.

I get the reason for starting everything as “individual” components, which makes sense for development. But honestly, it doesn’t work so well for consumers.


TL:DR
If we are going to build our own SAFE Browser, it needs APP plugins. This allows users to customize their SAFE experience with different APPS. It will also make the SAFE experience bigger, better … faster.

12 Likes

I agree with much of this, but I worry that devs are also waiting in the vaults being secure, before embarking on large app development. After all, if vaults can’t be made stable, it will be more like reinventing an encrypted CompuServ than an encrypted Internet! :wink:

6 Likes

Agree. No Vaults, No Business. Unfortunately there is little incentive for devs to turn their focus to something that has no production timeline.

It’s worth remembering this system is running on vaults. The big issue we need to address for vaults from home is being able to prune out vaults that are so low resourced they kill the network. As Data chains are not in place yet that means data loss.

So right now it is a vault network and one that we know the vaults are all capable, the next steps are

  1. Allowing low resource nodes to be excluded (https://github.com/maidsafe/rfcs/blob/master/text/0044-secure-vault-joining/0044-secure-vault-joining.md)
    this relies on https://github.com/maidsafe/rfcs/blob/master/text/0030-secure-node-join/0030-nodes_key_as_name.md and must follow https://github.com/maidsafe/rfcs/blob/master/text/0037-disjoint-groups/0037-disjoint-groups.md which is currently being worked on (this is a huge routing change)

  2. Data republish capabilities which is basically https://github.com/maidsafe/rfcs/blob/master/text/0029-data-chains.md/0029-data-chains.md and secured via https://github.com/maidsafe/rfcs/pull/177

  3. Group security, this is a work in progress RFC to confirm whether relocation or another mechanism is A: most secure, b: most efficient.

In terms of innovation and design etc. what is there and being delivered in client API’s is the autonomous network and what is can do is what the vaults from home will also do, they won’t add any more functionality or design parts etc. They will of course be great to confirm farming rewards work (safecoin etc.)

Hope that helps as a precis of vaults and their value/work required etc.

8 Likes

Admittedly I don’t know much about how routing or SAFE vaults work under the hood, but would it be easy to just put a few lines of code temporarily, that test a vault and don’t let it connect unless it meets certain requirements? Like, if it’s not at least as good as a DigitalOcean droplet, it can’t connect.

Even that would be a great step forward for now, to get vaults out there in some form.

Only if it’s easy. Don’t spend a bunch of resources on something like that though

3 Likes

I thought the same thing but surely they would have done it if it were that simple :smirk:

3 Likes