What can my client manager group know about me?

In between these times :wink:

1 Like

Thanks for your answers David, it’s much appreciated.

So, I assume that the client manager group encrypt the public datamap with your public key before they send it to your relay node(s)?

1 Like

It is more like this

client → relay node(s) → Client Managers (For Put)
client → relay node(s) → NAE Managers (for Post/Get)

So the relay is almost dumb and does not need to be able to understand what is happening, just pass on “stuff” to an address. In terms of what is readable then routing info minus IP and data (which on the network is encrypted) as well as signed requests to alter (Post) or plain Get requests.

4 Likes

This is what I wrote some time ago after studying how this part works. I think it’s still valid:

So, my close nodes have my IP:port:public key etc. So now they’re gonna watch the chunks come in and out and try to understand what I’m doing you think? Maybe they have lists of files and their chunks and try to catch me downloading an blockbuster movie from Hollywood? Well, time to add another layer of encryption. Yes, you are in group of close nodes and some of them will know your IP because they need to get data from and to your computer. So in a group of 32 close nodes (based on XOR) maybe 4 or 5 will know you IP. But now the magic starts, remember; you don’t ask for data on the network, your close nodes will. So while this group of close nodes is randomly chosen, you will connect to another group of nodes which are your (data)managers. The connection to that group will be the third layer of encryption, and maybe already a forth one! Because for something like “browsing” the Safenet you will use an identity to request data. But let’s go back a little. So, your close group connects you to the manager-group who are “somewhere” in XOR-space. This connection will be encrypted so your close nodes cannot understand the data between you and the managers. Your managers on the other hand, will understand your requests but they have no clue about who you are. To them your just another XOR-adddress that’s close to them in XOR-space. This way the close nodes will work like a proxy to protect your identity.

4 Likes

“s/close nodes/random relay nodes” and you are good I think :wink:

1 Like

This is indeed new to me as well. So in layman’s terms, before you connect to anyone or any address in XOR, all your data goes through a “proxy”. This happens on ip-level than? Before you connect to your group. So it used to be that out of the 32 nodes, some would’ve known your ip, but even your close group doesn’t know your ip anymore??? Wooow, this is like really secure. And quite logical indeed.

1 Like

That 2008 crisis really got to you, didn’t it? :yum:

6 Likes

I used to say In Enron’s terms, but that one is way to outdated :wink:

7 Likes

This is another hop though, how are the calculations now for 1 million users?? The regular calculation +1 I guess??

Depends, do the client managers know the IP of the relay? Or do they address him through the DHT with an XOR address?

1 Like

This is correct :+1:

1 Like

so uhm … that would be average hops times 2 Oo …?

not that I’d really worry if this conclusion is right :smiley: I’m so looking forward for real world tests of the network =)

1 Like

How many relays will an average user use? Their max upload is my max download, so with 4 users offering a 500KB/sec. relay my download will stay at max 2 MB/sec.

Let’s continue in the other topic if we want to discuss the bandwidth-related implications of this “new” info.

1 Like

I follow these technical conversations and seems to me every time some sort of “breach” is found by the community, David quickly jumps in and explains how all has been nicely and securely solved already.

I am impressed by the team and the robust Design…are there any big design problems still unsolved?

4 Likes

Let me know if I’m wrong but the way I read it it’s like it’s one node relay for the whole session.

It’s a single node per request (PUT-GET), multiple direct nodes for the same request or single node for the whole sessions?
Thank you.

1 Like

During test it will be, but then min 3 nodes replacing each one as any vanish. This requires some additional logic for replies etc. but the end result will be panellised access. It’s easy compared with everything else. So no worries there.

3 Likes

nobody but a relay knows your IP but then it does not know what you are doing

The client managers address users through the DHT with an XOR address

Is it possible to have a friend/family/trust peer in the relay group?

Edited: Actually, nevermind on that. It is possible if one were building local meshnet with cjdns. My original theory was to connect to your trust peer, then it scrubs the IP address and gives an xor address. Your trusted peer only knows that you are connected to the maidsafe.

Is the role of relay node enforced by the network? Because being a relay for someone with a high bandwidth consumption will eat yours too. I imagine people would want to turn this off to save their bandwidth farming.

Every node is everything to everyone. This is one of the harder parts to visualise, but everything is randomised evenly (this is the hard visualisation) across the network. This is why we would not use single relay nodes in anger but several.

6 Likes