What are your business ideas for the SAFE-Network?

Agree with that today, in terms of latency, but…

Can you imagine when I started thinking about safe in the early 2000’s what disk space, cpu speeds, bandwidth and hard disk access times were? This was a mantra for me for a long time, “design for tomorrow”. The notion of being fast is not always best, a car goes faster with no bumpers etc.

Even for us right now, we can imagine a database server will query small databases much faster than safe for now. This all changes though over time, so bandwith etc. increase almost exponentially. So say even bw was slow here, maybe 50% of what we need, then we just wait 13 months and it’s as good as today’s landlines, if that makes sense.

What I mean is, I think it is wise to not care about things being slow when they are growing exponentially, in fact it can be enlightening to design that way as it allows a lot of freedom that would not be there if we only designed for what we have today. I hope that makes sense? (it’s not necessarily right, it is just how I think anyway)


Oh yes, very much makes sense. “Design for tomorrow” has never been more important than today, for most every pursuit. Does make for a moving target though. I can see how the network will continue to be tweaked almost constantly after launch.


100%, the most important part is “after launch” for now we are trying to really focus on what we have today and that is why the network foundations were part of the update. It’s time to hit that launch button a soon as possible now that we have all the moving parts in order, except for some RFC’s and a working upgrade mechanism of course. The upgrade mechanism is very important for many reasons, the first being obvious, however, I hope we can get an upgrade as described in the list to allow anyone to propose an upgrade that the network can evaluate. That part will be hugely tweaked after launch to find the network-based qa type environment. Then it can really be a fully decentralised effort and not depend on any one company or group to decide what code makes it and what code breaks it. I think this is something many projects are considering, but many use humans to govern that and I really wish for something better than that.


AI would certainly figure into this I would imagine. Sounds very exciting.


I had an idea to have a stab at some .plan .project tool that would not be twitter but offer option to suggest a single line ‘state’… and that then mutable and visible to all. So, option to subscribe to friends and see their latest status changes… posts trivial or updates on what they are working on, without the overload that is the history of those.

but I see perhaps something bigger is in the works that might do that as an aside…

Perhaps WebIds could include .state field or perhaps better a tool=app can just make use of those Ids and allow management of the simple field of text separately.

Random number generation, and especially decentralised such, is not something I’ve looked into much.
Server side code running on vaults to deliver something, is a whole problem of it’s own; decentralised applications. The latter, yes we can definitely build and run such even today. The vault software is a decentralised software whose job it is to store data. This already runs.
If the latter will be a solution to the former, that I am currently not informed enough to make any good comments on, but it would surely present options to do so.

As a business idea you mean? (The OP)
There is already a key-value database functionality inherent. When it comes to the type that many would first think of - relational db - I think the network currently lacks some solutions to be able to implement it. (I started a topic on it not long ago here. The EventStore that I have been building on is very rudimentary, and the performance is not the best in the current design, but sure enough works. But I actually think the best event stores, in non decentralised environments, are built on top of SQL databases. Why? Because SQL databases are very hardened and have extremely powerful features that make them so much more useful than a simple key value store, or append log, for real world use of event streams.
Databases with a more advanced functionality require computation, and so to make it truly decentralised you have to solve that part. I write about it in the other topic.
As for business idea, well sure. There will be someone with enough team, vision and capital of various sorts, to provide more advanced database solutions if the tech allows it. And looking at what has been built so far the tech for it would be there eventually. There are still some limitations, but those tend to go away with time.

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I was thinking about something like a laser based thing (to achieve competitive bandwidth) with an omnidirectional receiver and 3-4 directed transmitters that would actively seek out nearby units. I haven’t actually researched the relevant tech so please don’t laugh if it’s badly unfeasible; :sweat_smile:

EDIT: Maybe it would be easier to just use a beacon and directed receiver/transmitter pairs.

They could just be a very secure backup, and then performance doesn’t matter because chunks that are accessed frequently are cached.

Immutable blocks on the Safe Network live forever but, unless they are popular, there are only a small (8?) number of copies kept of them. Read-only storage can reach enormous densities, especially if we consider the methods that are still under development. This opens up possibilities.

I can imagine running a huge number of vaults for a few months, then “freezing” them (ugly core change, anyone?), and copying their state to high-capacity read-only medium, then putting it on a cubesat on orbit as a collection of special read-only backup vaults. Upload bandwidth is then limited to sending requests for chucks.

EDIT: Some care should be taken to make sure all copies of the same chunk don’t end up on the same sat. I’m not sure how to do that or, for that matter, to implement any of this idea. I’m just musing about a possible opportunity here.

Home media servers are growing in popularity. Scheduled to be a 200 Billion dollar market by 2020. See the thing is that peoples personal media is growing and as their homes begin to become smart and connected that will require even more safe data storage alongside personal media, the current solution IMHO is the NAS aka Home Media Server per my OP. The ISSUE currently with uptake is NONE of the companies have figured out a way to market these products to regular folks, the only people buying these are tech heads, business owners, young men that download lots of media etc, the mom & pop market is untapped, I believe I have a solution to that and once these folks have a NAS at home the step from there to SAFE is easy. Trying to take them from nothing to SAFE is a little bit trickier and of course there are different channels but I see this as one HUGE opportunity.

I am going to try to set aside some time to ponder and meditate on this some more and see where it leads. If anyone is interested in perhaps getting involved or at least asking questions and testing my business case please do so. Currently the idea would be to simply online retail already existing solutions being Qnap, Synology, Western Digital etc and simply market to people that the current retailers and manufacturers are not marketing to.

Perhaps someone more technical than myself can offer some input on how the hardware of a NAS media server would work with our network…?


Have an APP screen (safe site) showing some popular SAFE APPs that stream media from the public file storage (or users private storage) in SAFE. So the APPs are like the netflix selection screen and user friendly for the person.

All that comes off the safe network, and only the safe client and auto login details are on the media centre and a autorun APP safesite which has the media APPs displayed so the user chooses which one they want.

Then in the background of the media centre separate to the client stuff is the node/vault software.

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I think these are quite different, though both are great ideas.

The one I wrote about is a vault, and I agree it’s not straightforward to market to non-tech folks. If farming could return the investment within a fraction of the lifetime of the device, or if it’s mixed with the mesh network idea and there’s enough coverage to make a broadband subscription redundant (farther in the future, in dreamland) then I can see how it could work. Otherwise, it’ll be a tough nut.

Neo’s interpretation is a client, along the lines of the Roku stick. I can see how that could gain traction real fast.

Isn’t the talk here about solar powered nodes and potential mesh networks essentially what the Skycoin (Sky Network) project is going for in the long term?

I think the SAFE mechanism for decentralization is better than Skycoin from a security and technical standpoint, but they have substantial funding (compared to SAFE). It would be interesting to see the two projects partner, although it would take Sky conceding their work in the secure web space to SAFE, which they may be unwilling to do. Their ideas around the future of the Internet via mesh networks and personal fiber lines is interesting, if a little naive, IMO.

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Ahh my mistake.

All good ideas, but obviously mine is the best :rofl::star_struck: JK

I do think that a box in the range of $150 that serves a purpose other than privacy, security is a pretty sweet foot in the door with protecting and storing peoples personal photo’s in their own home and then eventually on the network. Chicken or egg? No, we need data to farm. Your idea is good but I think if we can prompt uptake with Normies there will be a domino effect.

I have. Range and cost are the current limitations. The current cost of the batteries to support 24/7 operation is also another limiting factor. Solar panels are cheap… and the easiest part.


I was thinking of uploading a photo of my face as a public immutable file. A scary idea, because it feels so final - a bit like a tattoo in that respect. Public intimate files could serve as digital counterparts to tattoos. Maybe someone can create a business idea around that?


I am just curious to hear if there are any solutions that Maidsafe will build into the network to disallow illegal distribution of intellectual property/copyright content. Or anyway to stop it? Would be nice to build something into the network - if possible.

To build that in is to allow virtually any content to be deleted. Just claim the content is infringement of copyright and it can be deleted. Censorship mechanism!

Oh and the SAFE network doesn’t know what content you are uploading, its encrypted via self-encryption on your machine before being sent to the network to store. Thus the network has no way to censor anything, nor is any form of censorship being considered.

As the copyright trolls/owners found out, there is no real technical means to prevent copying except to force owners of networks to delete the content themselves. Even youtube has trouble keeping up and their AI doesn’t work perfectly. It deletes valid stuff and misses quite a lot of infringements.


Given these set of facts, do you think legitimate artists will avoid the Safe Network in favor of channels that attempt to enforce their property rights? Could the piracy concerns of creative professionals cause a drag on the adoption rate of Safe?

It won’t help them prevent the infringement. The ones that are aggressive in enforcement are unlikely to use anything they cannot control.

But I do hope/believe that with the benefits of SAFE and the PtP (Pay the Provider) that Original Artists will upload the best quality of their works and as such will be the preferred source of their works. People will usually get the content from the best source and the original if they can. PtP will ensure they can and the Artists will earn from that assuming their works are actually any good.

Well theoretically, anyone could download the original content and then re-distribute illegal without anyone knowing who is doing it on the SAFE network. Dont we see that as a problem. I mean anyone can start selling anything and not worry about copyright infringment laws at all?