We pledge to protect children and hunt terrorists!

I think we can call agree here that in one way or another all of us support privacy, security, anonymity and freedom.

Yet we have seen the ugly sides of anonymity such as terrorism and pedophilia to name just a few and these topics will forever be used by cynics and haters in defense of public webs and in argument against anonymous, private and secure networks.

We have seen this used against Bitcoin and Tor with Tor copping the brunt of it and for good reason.

My argument to this has always been that just because I can close a door or shut a window does not mean I will commit a crime and even if I do, well, then, I have committed a crime and that of course would necessitate good old fashioned police work regardless of where that crime happened and what tools were used to disguise it.

I still believe this, of course I do.

However. I think something more is necessary if SAFE is to become the gargantuan we envision it becoming.

Here is what I think and I’m thinking loudly here, after a a few wines.

When I think of this topic. I think of my friend and colleague. Lets call him Peter.

Peter is average Joe and is not that interested in topics about technology, privacy, networks etc. He just wants to live his life and get along.

Peter is a good guy so when Peter hears that drug smugglers, terrorists and pedophile might operate using bitcoins on conversing on networks such as Tor his opinion is that these things should not exist because people, children especially can get hurt and that the risk far outweighs the benefit. Like I said, Peter is a good guy.

Well when thinking about this topic I think about Peter. Because Peter who would normally have no opinion on something like SAFE net all of a sudden does and he doesn’t like it. He doesn’t need to understand it. He just needs to know that it allows for a certain level of anonymity and that could attract some unscrupulous people and that he does not like one bit.

How do we win Peter over?

This is what I have been pondering.

Well I think I may have a solution because you see good guy Peter loves himself a story about a bad guy getting caught and in fact even fancies himself a bit of a couch detective when it comes to crime shows.

Peter loves watching and hearing about crooks getting caught and more than that he likes to know there are good guys like him out there making the world a better place if even just from their couches.

I think this is what SAFE needs. SAFE needs all of the good guys to stand up, the community to come together before this thing even goes live and to state loudly and boldly that we will not accept nor tolerate despicable crimes or acts on this network. We will not tolerate pedophilia and terrorism especially and we will not stand for it. We don’t want this on our network and to let the terrorists and pedophiles know that they are not safe on our network. We are watching and we are waiting.

We could even go a step further and create some sort of defense league. A SAFE citizens watch and report program that is open and completely transparent. We monitor the forums, we search the network and we hunt the vile scum that will no doubt try to exploit the networks benefits.

This way when guys like Peter hear about SAFE net they hear about this fantastic new and anonymous network but one in which good people are safe but criminals are not. And maybe Peter even hears about SAFE net for the first time from one of these related stories "Online Vigilante Group Aids Police In 4th Pedophile Arrest"

This is a win/win for all involved I think. I personally pledge to do this with or without the backing of others and not just because I think it’s good for the network but because I am a decent person and I hate evil.

What do others think?

Good luck stopping said despicable acts on the network. It’s designed to be a neutral platform. If it’s designed correctly no amount of goody two-shoes people trying to restrict “evil” will matter worth a damn. And even then, who draws the line between evil and good? Is piracy evil? Is porn evil? Is making fun of a religion evil? Is whistleblowing evil? There are people who would argue all of these are evil.

The network protects us all or it protects none of us. You can choose between those two options and I know which one I’m choosing.

Good points.
If I where creating it, I would set it up like a vigilante group and base it on my own moral code. We are here to do XYZ we don’t care about ABC. I personally think the #1 priority would be to monitor and report for pedophilia. I would give zero f**ks about drugs and porn.

Why, would you not report pedophilia or child porn if you witnessed it?

This will do more to show the world that SAFE is a haven for these sickos.

Its like putting up a neon sign saying SAFE is not safe, its so full of sickos and their material that we have to get all Vigilante and stalk the sickos

And you cannot track them down because if SAFE works then if one want anonymity then they have it.

And you have to realise that the sickos already have all the tools they need to share their illegal material amongst themselves. So while you are telling the world that SAFE has the sickos using it, in fact they are unlikely to change over to SAFE when their methods are working.

Moderation comment, please in future use the existing topic recently opened.

EDIT: moved to off-topic where the other topics on this subject are.

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I think, once you have the chance to report things in a truly anonymous manner…your going to get a flood of intelligence coming in. The police will become more efficient with this crowd sourced intelligence, they wont need to spy…people will have the confidence to report wrong doings.

We are moving into a situation that we’ve never been in before, because presently it’s so easy to set up some dirt on someone to shut them up. I believe a big chunk of the operators at the head of society are compromised and in no position to rat someone out…this all changes.

It might take a generation to clean the world up, but with privacy and anonymity it can be done.

I dont necessarily agree with his solutions, but Yanis describes our predicament pretty well:


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Sure, if there’s a simple system to report it to some organization I’ll report it. Child porn isn’t a thing that should be tolerated. But it’s not like I’m going to call the police and say “I saw child porn on the internet!”. At best the police go and look at it and say they can’t do anything because they can’t trace who posted it (if they can even figure out how to access the SAFE network in the first place). At worst I’ll be charged with possession of child porn.

But it’s also not something you’re really going to come across unless you go specifically looking for it.

IMO Peter isn not a good guy. He’s a do-gooder and social justice warrior who likes to meddle into other people’s affairs.

At first you made me think he’s not:

But now he wants other people to do something he thinks shouldn’t be done (e.g. let’s just make it easier and imagine Peter is a nice guy who can’t stand Web pages with black background, so Web pages with black background should be banned and perpetrators jailed).

I say to hell with him, and you’re in a bad situation now, because the most basic premise of MaidSafe is that there’s nothing one can do about to prevent another from expressing himself on SAFE.

If that promise is ever broken, SAFE dies.

That is hilarious! I would say someone else is scum, but the unique freedom of speech policy on this forum protects only present parties (meaning, I assume we can call terrorists scum because there aren’t any on the forum, but we can’t call anyone who’s here scum because that’d constitute a personal attack).

It doesn’t matter, because you can’t catch anyone doing anything. If you could, SAFE would be worthless.
Also this is a rehash of old topics on underage porn and whatnot. I think the most appropriate reaction is to ridicule these suggestions.

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I disagree obviously.

People are smarter than that.

Oh really? Then how did the idiot from silk road get caught?

Great! Why on Earth would we want sicko’s using our network?

By not being on the SAFE network?

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And goindeep, in Australia you can be jailed for just seeing an image, and if you report that you saw an image posted by some anon user, you cannot identify because you know the network totally hides every bit of info about the poster, then the police can arrest you so they can report to have successfully arrested another CSA image viewer

The law in Australia is stupid in that respect, but just viewing one image is a crime and “by accident” is not a defense under that law, and can result in a jail term. The police view those on the look out for this material as an offender who hides behind “I am just doing it to report the crims”. Their view is the person does that because they want to see the material, but claims to be protecting others.

His network had nothing to do with it. He got caught by good old fashioned police work they drew him out.

Why would I want to look at child porn? Who said anything about that? If I see someone doing the wrong thing I am reporting it. And I will do it proactively. Evil scum bags will not be tolerated.

Yes.

Well if you’re right you better create some SELL orders on Polo right now, bro.

Okay, I think @Tonda plans to upload tons of “extreme porn” (which is legal in his country, but illegal in Scotland) to his SAFE porn portal.
We’ll see what happens and who does what about it.
(The current stage doesn’t count and I’d like him to wait until it is not MaidSafe who hosts the vaults).

Okay, but that doesn’t quite fit the “live and let live” philosophy you espoused earlier. Admit you have double standards, it’s okay.

Because silk road was about physical goods changing hands. The police did real police work and got on the inside of some deals and gained evidence. The claims of cyber detective work was just claims to help the police get more surveillance powers.

Same as they do with the pedo rings. Read the international police reports. The most cyber stuff done is to get a list of IP addresses off the servers and go to the ISPs and find out who had that IP address at the time and bust them.

Anonymity/encryption stops police from getting info using that angle so they join the rings (pedo rings, silk road and others)

OK you have completely lost me now. I give up with you. I just know if I see and pedo shit or terrorists they’re getting monitored and reported. Maybe you would let a pedo get away, but I wont.

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So you think that stating outright this sort of shit wont be tolerated is a bad thing?

Of course you are, that is what you say you are going to announce. That you are going to track down these sickos on SAFE. What else are people going to think…

Read what I said, you even quoted me saying they would not

You can be arrested for tracking down CSA material in Australia. Doesn’t matter you report it to the police you still are actively looking for it. Then you announce you are going to do it. And then you tell the police that found this and that. Open and shut case right there you admit and announce that you are looking for that stuff and its illegal to even see one image.

Hell I hate the stuff and as sure as hell I am not going to look for it, for any reason.

Im done for tonight, looks like I have opened a can of worms. I’m off to listen to some Sargon of Akkad. See you all in the morning. Happy discussions.

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This is so funny.

If anyone gets caught by you, they deserve to be jailed for sheer incompetence (regardless of what they’ve done).
It looks we’ll have to create The SAFE League for Protection from The SAFE Defense League, just to make sure you get less sleep at night :wink:

I’m surprised that this trolling topic hasn’t been closed yet (and yes, goindeep is the one who’s trolling, because this post is identical to all the others in which terrorists or pedophiles are mentioned).