There have been members of the forum that have come and gone, comments here on the forum and in YouTube comments on occasion saying that this forum isn’t inclusive enough or that there is somehow gate keeping.
The one clear subject has been politics. Ive even received personal messages telling me how ignorant (and many more insults) so many on this forum are (which was indirect but clearly about a difference in political opinions and general consensus amongst longer standing forum members). There is a politics thread and AFAIK any opinions are openly discussed there and it seems to me that some of these complaints are coming from people who feel uncomfortable because they are the minority in a certain political belief and so don’t feel welcome.
Then there has been mention of the forum being an echo chamber. That one is hard to pin down as we are all here for the Safe Network and the values of privacy, security, freedom and enthusiasm for a live network is something we all share. There are clearly many disagreements, especially politically, so it clearly isn’t an echo chamber. People are not silenced or removed from the forum by moderators for points of view but rather for such acts of indecency, threats, extortion, etc.
Then some have felt censored by moderators which has always been because the subjects being moderated felt they should be untouchable and have unbridled speech on a public forum that is attempting to make a comfortable space for all.
I have been guilty of acting as the tone police from time to time as I believe general respect is essential for constructive discourse. Moderation is essential for an effective and orderly forum. So what can we do, if anything, to make this forum seem more inclusive to all and not turn folks away?
It may be taboo to suggest on a forum that’s members all rally behind strong beliefs in personal freedoms that they can’t discuss certain topics but perhaps politics should be banned from this forum.
This is only a suggestion to feel out all sides. If abstaining from a topic that permeates all other areas of our lives today then perhaps it would lend to this forum as feeling like an internet oasis where people have long been decent to each other, regardless of beliefs. The rise of politics here has clearly started to erode some of the camaraderie long present here and has apparently turned away new comers or lurkers from being more active.
Please share your thoughts and suggestions. I’m happy with the forum as is personally but this isn’t about just me or you if you are also content with the forum ‘as is’. It is about putting ourselves in the shoes of those who feel turned away or unwelcome and unwilling to participate in more important technical discussions, etc.
Should Politics Be Excluded From Forum Discussions?
I think it’s fair to say that most people interested in the Safe Network are anti-censorship. I resent what big tech is doing - simply as they have near-monopoly like positions, however I think evolution is the only permanence and if they so choose to lock out opinions or even people who won’t shut up, then IMO, it’s their platform and their loss. Short term there is pain, but pain drives change.
That said, I don’t think it’s wrong or evil or oppressive for the forum to have coherent rules.
As long as there is a political section, I’m happy to keep my politics in those areas. If they are taken away, I won’t be bothered either. but if they are taken away and then certain political views continue to be expressed in the high-view-count sections and those are not immediately removed … I’m going to be really P.O.'d … there needs to be equal opportunity within the rules. If the forum admins/moderators decide to implement such rules, I think there should also be a place where users may complain about forum admins/moderators and rules where all the forum admins and moderators can see and hear the complaint.
I am very happy for moderators to remove political content from the high-view-threads now - but they should not play favorites.
EDIT: I would also add that if moderators themselves are getting involved in political threads (or have in the past) and then rules against such threads are enacted … those moderates should be removed - as their bias is going to affect their ability to moderate appropriately in the future.
One YouTube comment in particular even had a problem with the politics thread, insinuating that the overall communities political views are a particular way that is unwelcoming to differing thought.
I tend to agree with your assessment of most here being anti-censorship but nothing good seems to come from the politics thread really, does it? Has it made this community stronger or increased its numbers? Completely change anyone’s political stances? Added to the discussion or rather just caused people to view others negatively, get upset at each other, move on etc.
Maybe what should be asked is how is the political thread beneficial to this forum, community, project?
The moderators and admins here all do a fantastic job.
With all of the thousands of people on this forum, only having one complaint is an amazingly positive outcome. I would address specific complaints about specific people and/or posts, but there is nothing that can be done about an overall, “I don’t feel welcome” unless the person specifically identifies the things that don’t make them feel welcome, and we agree as a community that the complaint is reasonable.
We can’t overhaul our whole community based on one complaint. Some people will not feel welcome no matter what we do. They have their own issues.
Our community is a wide variety of people from different nations, political beliefs, backgrounds, and cultures, and all of them obviously feel welcome. That is already an amazing accomplishment.
The top priority is to get the Network out. Politics has to take a back seat.
It’s been numerous complaints actually and I get the sense it is actually far more but not everyone is willing to speak up.
I would mention user handles but some have literally been removed (usually by request) so can’t weigh in, others would feel singled out or possibly attacked, so I won’t name names.
There is a sense of exclusivity here at times that turns people away.
Appreciate the input.
I personally can find value in that approach as well but it seems most have their opinion and will not sway and will die on any hill in which their opinion is challenged. Not conducive to progress or community building. I haven’t participated for a couple to few weeks now and the my overall forum experience has improved. Of course people can tailor their forum experience here through settings but unfortunately not everyone knows how to do this and even more unfortunate is that politics seems all too enticing for most.
Please participate in the poll at the bottom of the original post at the top. It’s single vote, anonymous, and results will only be shown after the poll is closed. Please and thank you.
I’m all in for banning politics from the forum. This has nothing to do with censorship, this is just no political forum, but a forum about the SafeNetwork.
As I feel neutral on pro or con and as there isn’t an option for neutral, I won’t take the poll. But interested to see the response.
Edit: There is one thing here though … .the term politics is itself open to interpretation, so if a ban is created I would expect clear boundaries to be worked out. Leaving that door wide open to moderator interpretation will allow moderator bias (everyone has some bias) to move the goalposts one way or another.
I think it’s pretty bad when a forum for a network that aims to fight censorship can’t allow some censorship free, but rules based and confined, topics for politics.
I for one have felt shouted down on political subjects here, but I will defend those who did the shouting to voice their opinions. That is the nature of free speech.
It is a credit to this community that this has been allowed so far. Don’t go all fearful.
Anything can be seen as politics. The Safe project itself is highly political. As I see it, the subject is not the problem. It’s the inaccurate and counterfactual arguments. It’s entirely possible to discuss politics in a civilized manner. It’s also important that people do their best to stay on topic. I’d rather ban lying or saying things that are not true which is, of course, impossible. One can’t get rid of medical quackery by banning subjects like biology and chemistry.
Moderators have two voices. Usually we are just regular forum members with our own personal opinions. But on occasion we can use our “moderator voice” by coloring a post yellow.
I won’t disagree with you there but that bias exists in any form no matter the topic and I think most of us agree that we are better off with moderation than without.
Ironically, this post has been moved to the Meta category by @moderators where it won’t be seen by most forum members to share their opinion or participate in the poll, unlike the politics thread which is in off-topic. I might be wrong about how those categories are seen by forum members but if that is true I would request that everyone should be able to see and participate.
In my opinion politics is a cancer to any conversation.
I think just about everyone here is against censorship.
Staying on topic for what we are here to discuss is not censorship… it is focusing.
I may as well try to constantly discuss one of my other interests here (kiteboarding) but that would be ridiculous. I’ll do that on a forum for kiteboarding.
I would not claim censorship if I was asked to take that conversation to the appropriate forum. I could probably get away with it too but it’s not why we are here, it would be stupid of me to try and force it on all of you.
@Josh always trying to radicalize people into kite-boarders. Jk. Tend to agree. When people share small little bits of their interests or personal lives I never get bothered by that (rather enjoy it) and I don’t think most would but clearly politics has snowballed and is far too divisive to keep the focus on our shared goal.
Of course if there is anything else we could do to make the forum more inclusive, I hope people have some suggestions.
This I agree with. And I personally welcome both kiteboarding and political discussions in the appropriate topics. (I say this as a person, not as a moderator.)
