Video: devolution + safe


#21

One additional thought, and probably again a question to you about how you envision this can evolve, I think one key aspect of such an app/model/concept/…, would be the possibility of getting credits from what you are good at doing, so it would be good if I can get credits from helping someone else with some stuff which I can then get for getting help from someone else that I’m not capable of doing, well…that’s what money was supposed to be for if I’m not wrong :slight_smile:
Is that something you were also thinking of and envisioning for your app apart from getting credits from donating safecoins?


#22

Thanks @happybeing . When I first started looking into the crypto stuff I had lots of ideas about how this technology could be used to radically transform the political landscape. I also got inspiration from a book called “Life after the state”, by Dominic Frisby. I started off messing around with an app called “GiveMeCredit”, which was a similar idea to Steamit, but a browser extension. I first posted the idea here about 4 years ago. I built a centralized prototype but later scrapped the idea. I spent more time thinking about it, and came up with this, which I started working on about a year ago.

Why?..err…I get attached to my ideas. I was concerned about economic instability, and frustrated with politics and the political divide, so I tried to design something that would cater for everyone - as much as possible at least. BTW, I agree with your points about the political stuff. It distracts from the application and it may even put some people off. I’m going to re-record it and leave that stuff out.

I’ve certainly learnt a lot about building apps. Other than the browser extension, this is the first proper web app that I’ve built. I used to build websites and so I have knowledge of JQuery. I’ve dabbled with AngularJS, but didn’t get far with. I’ve recently looked into React and Vue, but for now i’ll stick with JQuery.


#23

I’ve updated the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v83KDHyyNjg

It’s shorter and hopefully the sound quality is a bit better :wink:


#24

Do you mean like time banking? It could definitely be a feature :wink:

“In these systems, one person volunteers to work for an hour for another person; thus, they are credited with one hour, which they can redeem for an hour of service from another volunteer.”


#25

Yes I guess that’s one option, or if the community is happy to measure it in other ways and not necesarily time based, although it sounds like its goal is to make it fair and not just something a/the market can then corrupt…dunno. Also, perhaps mix it with things like energy credits, people contributing energy to a community energy network. I wished I had a big roof to start playing with some neighbours with something like that.


#26

Would be possible to have community insurance company for self employed persons completely dependent to country were you live to cover healt insurance and pension ?


#27

Yeh I guess these could be setup as public services. The Health Credits will be a form of health insurance, but you could have additional health insurance on top. That way if you didn’t want to use the public service, but you don’t have enough Health Credits to pay for a treatment, the health insurance could step in to make up the difference, which i believe is similar to the Singaporean system.


#28

Wow. What a superb app and idea. That user interface looks excellent, the whole idea and concept might just be the rocket the safe network needs on launch! Bravo!


#29

+1 on time banking! [20 char]


#30

Interesting stuff! Was going to ask what you were coding it in, but I think I read jQuery somewhere.

Was also going to ask about modularity for other purposes … seems you have different versions in mind for different purposes? I’d humbly suggest you consider going with modules/extensions/plugins for this purpose to allow max flexibility. These days it’s hard to clearly delineate between type of organizations - lots of overlaps, so having a more extendable app might be better.

Great work though, looking forward to see how this evolves!


#31

This is fantastic!! Very exciting to see SAFE dApps like this coming up. I particularly like its comprehensive approach to community building and management. It looks like you’ve really leveraged a systems view to think through a lot of the strategic interdependencies. A couple of questions:

  • What is your plan for launching this dApp once the Network goes live? Are there categories of or specific communities you would approach first? Would you think of this as an institutional tool (something NGOs or NPOs, for example, might use), or would you target more general “consumer” specific communities Ike a meetup.com)? Perhaps a hybrid strategy with potential for commercial/corporate use cases as well?
  • How do you see the token economics working out between the different types of credits as well as in relation to Safecoin? For example, do you see the credits as stable coins that are pegged to or backed by something? Or would market factors (like an exchange) contribute to determining the dynamic value over time? How would community growth impact the token economics?

If you could make some videos about the topics above that would be amazing and so helpful for the global meetup groups!

Once again, really exciting work!!


#32

Thanks for your comments @Sotros25. Regarding how the app will be launched, I’m still not 100% sure yet. It depends on what I am able to do with Smart Contacts.

I was hoping to have a stripped-down version of the application which was designed for the international community. As more people use the application, certain parts of the application start to fork based on their location (as specified in their Solid POD). It could be automatic or user driven, i.e. a local official pushes a button and clones the application with a new url. @bochaco mentioned something about using versioning. I haven’t had a chance to look into that yet but i’m open for whatever works best.

I want communities to have control over how the app is managed. Each community will have an elected IT official (perhaps a company) to test and install updates, create/share/install new skins, and anything else they want to do. This will allow for more innovation and increase security. The social media stuff, business profiles and anything else which is profile based will use Solid, which is universal by default.

With regards to the tokens…
They will be backed by SafeCoin (or maybe other currencies if they exist). So basically, 1 credit = 1 SafeCoin. So when money goes into the application, the SafeCoin is held in an account along-side a record or their Social/Health/Education credits. The use of these credits will be restricted, and can only be redeemed for SafeCoin according to the rules of the application. If this feature is available on the international version, I will need to use some sort of Smart Contract. Doing this at the community level without Smart Contracts will add an element of centralization, but as long as there is sufficient transparency and we are able unelect the administrator, It shouldn’t be a problem.

I plan to make some more videos in the near future. As you can see, it’s a huge project and so i will struggle to complete this on my own. I want to raise some money so that I can pay for some developers to help out. I know some talented developers in Thailand who would be interested in getting involved (providing i pay of course ;))

EDIT: I’m currently working on improving the design for the slot machine. Below is a screenshot (it still needs work)…


#33

@Glen_Simister good to hear you have plans to use Solid tech on SAFE for Devolution app. This story gets even better as you tell us more about it. :slight_smile:

Given that, you might find people interested to help in the Solid community too. The Solid app development chat and the Solid forum are great places to share and talk about this when you are ready. I’d love Melvin Carvalho to see your demo. He’s integrating payment stuff into Solid right now, and has expressed an interest in doing something using SAFE WebID in the browser, so it would give him some insight into how that works, and I think he’d also be interested in your use case as he’s putting together a list of things that payments need to support. I’ll be happy to introduce you any time, or just hop over into the Solid chat and say hello. He and I had a chat about using SAFE for a demo yesterday morning. Melvin is a very helpful, knowledgeable and friendly guy.


#34

Thanks. I’m going to spend more time researching Solid. I posted about this idea on the Solid forum a couple of months ago. Actually, you commented on it :grin:

There’s a few things i’m confused about with regards to SAFE/SOLID integration.

Currently, i’m grabbing the WebID info from the browser using…
const webId = await window.currentWebId[’#me’][’@id’];

Then i’m storing this info as mutuable data - along with posts/comments etc. This is just a temporary solution. Naturally, I would like to update the actual MD which is storing the turtle data. Is this currently possible? How far has Maidsafe got with Solid integration?

Regarding the mock browser, my guess is that i would need to go into the safe-web-id-manager-js folder and change the code so that it uses a fixed location MD. Then I can connect to it from my app. I’ll look into this in more detail later. Anyway, If someone could create a simple safe+solid tutorial it would be greatly appreciated :wink:

P.S. I watched your video on youtube about using Plume on SAFE - very cool :wink:

EDIT: I just tried to change the code in the safe-web-id-manager-js folder so that the webId data is written to a fixed location MD. I am now able to access the MD from my app and retrieve the turtle data. I then tried to create/update a profile using the WebID API but received various errors. I guess i’ll need to change permissions on the MD etc. Anyway, I’ll come back to this another time…


#35

Hmmm i’m thinking of scrapping the casino because I don’t want kids using it and i’m not sure how i can verify their age. I also don’t want people who don’t have much money, making themselves poorer, which might happen. I’m not a fan of gambling anyway but since the proceeds were going back into the community I didn’t mind so much.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? In the meantime i’ll try to think of some other way I can incentive people to put money into the app…


#36

Reminds me a little bit of the holon communitities in the daemon/freedom books.

This review has a description

Freedom developed the Daemon further by introducing a new type of real-world community called a Holon, populated by darknet citizens and built to be self sufficient within a hundred mile radius of its epicenter. This encompassed power generation, food supply and micro manufacturing. These communities would use renewable energy because the Daemon required them to factor in the external costs of carbon pollution, making the use of fossil fuels far more expensive. Also, farms in these holons were abandoning crops that were simply used as feedstock into the processed food industry, such as corn. Instead they would focus on crops to feed the population of the holon and fallow fields to avoid dependency on petro chemical based fertilizers. The central tenant of the model was local self sufficiency. The novel provided other interesting ideas about the integration of network citizens with the darknet and the real world. One was how transparent the distribution of influence was in the darknet. As darknet citizens leveled up, they could make more resource requests from the Daemon, hence becoming more influential. Each darknet citizen could call up a meter that indicates whether power was concentrated in a few individuals (bad) or the other extreme where influence was evenly shared among the population (also bad) for the immediate area. Ideally there would be a slight focal point to provide leadership and the ability to overcome a stalemate, yet not be so overwhelming as to be corruptible. Additional MMORPG attributes were integrated into the darknet, like a reputation score as well as public forums (such as Reddit) for crowd-sourced problem solving (as when Jon recruited help analyzing large amounts of surveillance video or when Loki put the call out to locate The Major with all his known aliases). Finally, tangible real-world objects could have special capabilities in the darknet (like Natalie’s bracelet of protection given to her by Jon via a 3D printer).


#37

The Holon thing all sounds really cool except for the ranked citizen bit…

This app is very interesting. I’m excited for safe network to get released after all these years.


#38

I think you have a couple good points there and it’s always preferred to do better than the status quo but at the same time gambling is such a useful engagement hack. Maybe keep the concept of gamification just maybe one that is seen as less addictive and more of a level up, progress based game?


#39

Yeh i agree. Some sort of game that people can benefit from would be better.

Another thing I thought of was a wedding application. So when someone is getting married they register and pay money into the app and it creates them a customized wedding website with RSVP, maps, galleries and stuff like that. I set one up years ago but never did anything with it (screenshots below). Anyway, its a bit random lol…I’ll keep thinking of other ways to monetize…

bigday21
bigday


#40

That sounds useful to me, providing a service for a common engagement (pun intended). These things should exist on the new internet!

Just a couple questions. What are the monetization gains used for? Profit, community funds, or other?
And was the point of the slot machine to transfer value from one store of value to another in a fun way but through effort (kind of like mining)?

If I have a little more clarity on the end goal in this regard I might be able to make some suggestions that might spark some more of your genius :slightly_smiling_face: