Updated: RFC 0061 — Safe Network Token Distribution

Worth repeating.

A mistake was forced on us a long time ago. The market has long since adapted to that. Lets move on unless you can directly point at someone who has suffered real loss as a result.

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Just sticking to the original points and it seems like an optic and moral view and definitely valid and though I acknowledge and respect that perspective and the people voicing them, I just don’t think it matters as much as it once would have.

Even most long time ago investors are surprised it’s still being developed if you bring this project up. Noobs to crypto don’t know or care about history just the flavor of the week or what’s shiny. So much time has passed. Most in the space don’t even share the same ideals as us real early folk.

Pre mines etc are nothing compared to other scams and crimes in the space and this. It was an honest mistake not even made by Maidsafe that has been thoroughly considered by a responsible team that without this mishap may not have weathered till now to deliver the world the gift we’re all here to support, so it’s just peanuts to me.

Maidsafe already owes a shit ton too. To pre crowdsale investors, to bank2the future investors, to community members that lent MAID. Shit happened and not all of it looks perfect but if it gets us where we need to be, that is real.

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Your thinking is in error here. If I’m not mistaken this statement is completely false and inaccurate.

I’m mobile now and need a few days when I can get back to a keyboard and compose my thoughts or offer an alternative/revised RFC 0061A on this matter that actually makes sense from both a technical and ethical perspective.

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Thanks for replying but again you’ve just repeated that I’m wrong (both here and in the dev update topic) and not said what is wrong in your view. Just saying, because there’s nothing new I need to respond to.

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Just to point out again, that there is not a hard 5%/10% split for core and app dev royalties anymore, as per the original safecoin paper. It’s 15% that can then be appropriately distributed over time as the needs of the Network and the ecosystem change.

Initially, 5% for might seem appropriate at Network launch, but years down the line, it would be wildly too much. So we’ve removed such hard ringfences, and it will be up to the Foundation to decide the allocations appropriately.

But I’d also like to point out that this 15% also includes things such as the notion of app rewards paid directly and autonomously by the Network in future, and also Pay-the-Producer (type) schemes, where the Network can automatically reward content creators/uploader.

But it’s also worth noting that the web as it is currently constituted is built upon privacy invading, data harvesting, ad-based business models, and that most opensource projects that hold the whole thing together are woefully and precariously underfunded.

We are not aiming to replicate that.

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Overall though, I’m pleased we seem to be left with discussing the degree of divisibility, how to define the word supply, and 10% MAID @ 4,525,524,120 vs 10.536% MAID at 2^32; as these are all at the minor end of the spectrum of things. So we are getting there!

That said… let’s not talk things into oblivion.

I appreciate you saying this!

This RFC was originally posted in what, June? We’ve been working hard on things since then, and there are a bunch moving parts to consider; not least of which is the machinations of the Swiss legal system which need time to feed though.

What I’m trying to say is, if we want to have everything in place to launch this year, we can’t really put this thing on and endless loop; there is little point in folk just restating the same arguments from the last thread.

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I still don’t understand the math here.
2^32 = 4294967296
MAID was suppose to be 10% of 2^32 = 429,496,729
Actual maid printed = 452,552,412 (5.36% extra)
Extra MAID = 23,055,683

The additional MAID was not sold as part of the crowdsale.

I don’t understand why we are overprinting Safecoin by 230,556,824 (50.94% of the current MAID supply) when the initial mistake was 23,055,683?

Who gets this additional 207,501,141 Safecoin?
This seems incredibly unfair.

If 10% MAID exists and 10% is external investors / shares.

The overprinted Safecoin should only be 46,111,366 + 32^2.
I really don’t get why we a multiplying the error by 10x and creating a overprint that is almost 51% of the current MAID supply. It seems ridiculous there is nothing fair about this.

Everybody else. All the proportions remain the same…

5% to Shareholders = 11,527,841.20
15% to the Royalty Pool = 34,583,523.60
70% to nodes = 161,389,776.80
Total = 207,501,141

It would be unfair if everyone else got proportionally less all of a sudden, because of a mishap in the MAID crowdsale.

I can explain through the medium of cake if that helps? :cake:

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The cake is currently made up of MAID and Shareholders. When Maidsafe made the choice to use the overprinted coins (no mishap here, actual choice!) these were the only parties effected.

The futures royalties and nodes are not part of the current error because they don’t exist yet.

Give the shareholders an extra 0.18%, so the total error is %0.54 of the total supply.
Thats a much better deal for the current investors and MAID holders.

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They are very much part of the full prospectus that was both invested in, and put forth at the crowdsale so I have to disagree. They would be affected, as they are part of the overall economy. It’s the cleanest, fairest way to deal with it.

So the people that have skin in the game get less, and those with nothing risked get a bigger slice of the cake. In the name of fairness, this seems ridiculously unfair.

How is multiplying an error by 10x a solution. MAID holders already suffered when it was spent once, now we have the enjoyment of it being spent 9 more times.

What a total scam.

I was not told Maidsafe would spend the overprint at the crowdsale.

People need to stop making the overprint and the use of the overprint the same event. One was a choice.

let me see if I am following this …

  1. More MAID was created, so holders of MAID have more - a larger percentage of the pie by the old 2^32 number. So to compensate all the others get an equal percentage boost?

  2. So in the end nobody is being diluted?

  3. but some people think because maidsafe made an error, some participants should be diluted?

Am I missing something? Or do I have something wrong here? Just spit-balling.

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How can you be diluted if you currently hold nothing?
Maidsafe didn’t make an error, they made a choice.

You can’t. But if you hold nothing then you’ve lost nothing.

What am I not understanding. Use small words, I’m stupid maybe.

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(sorry, I couldn’t help myself, I must be hungry)

MaidSafe are baking a cake. A big beautiful cake.

But in order to fund the ongoing baking of the cake, they decided to have a bakesale. But reather than divert resources away from the bakery dealing with the RealCake, they got another bakery to make a ProxyCake to sell at this bakesale.

Bakesale customers were promised they would get 10% of the RealCake by buying a slice of ProxyCake. When the RealCake was finished, they could just swap their proxy slice for the real deal. They would be identical in size.

But the proxy baker cocked up! They used a tin that was slightly too large; and the ProxyCake was just a little bit bigger.

We had already handed out all the proxy slices to the original size as promised though, and the baker arrived just as we’d shut the shop, and them the extra, albeit small, slice.

There was a decision to be made about what to do with this slice… do we just throw it out? Eat it right then and there? In the end, it was decided later to sell this extra slice when the need arose, and allowing the bakery to keep on making the RealCake.

But now, the RealCake is too small! If we give out all the slices matching the ProxyCake one when the time comes, there won’t be enough left to give out to the other people who’d been promised a slice, like investors in the bakery, or the people who only discovered the RealCake after it’s finished, but still want some the same as everyone else.

Aha! A solution though… we make the RealCake tin the same size as the ProxyCake tin! That way, all the ProxyCake slices match as promised, the investors in the bakery get the same size slice, and all the people helping the deliver RealCakes in future get the same size slices, just as tasty and nutritious as they’d been led to believe.

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So the nodes get up to an additnal 161,389,776.80 coins because they a multiplying the error by 10x. The Royalty Pool an extra 34,583,523.6.

Neither of these two groups can be diluted, as they don’t exist, they hold nothing.

The only parties that matter are MAID (10%) and Shareholders (5%). The share holders should have their portion increased to share the revenue generated from the choice to sell the overprint. So they are not diluted. ( The original MAID holders where diluted when the sale occurred)

You can hold less than nothing, and be diluted.

E.g. you don’t hold maid or shares, but put time and effort into the community, and building things, and in the expectation of something (such as network royalties / dev rewards, or running a node) and then lose out because you get less.

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MAID holders / share holders where diluted at this point. When you sold the extra slice.

Make the share holders whole by giving them extra, and the error is no longer an issue