Update 5 May, 2022

Thank you for the heavy work team MaidSafe! I add the translations in the first post :dragon:

Privacy. Security. Freedom


I had the opposite reaction to that particular comment. As stated, the current implementation is state of the art and works. It was implemented to address two particular issues, i.e., money supply verification and transaction amount hiding. And it addresses those issues without harming other properties like efficiency, divisibility, and unlinkability (even if it’s not most optimal at the latter). A tremendous amount of work and innovation went into it. Any better alternative is going to take years of research and innovation (including from external parties).

Given the above, I would think full focus should be on just integrating it and getting this thing on the road. If there’s any issues that we should be aware of like with PARSEC, now is the time to fully detail it. But absent any show stopping issue like that and absent any ready alternative, we should just go ahead with what we have that works well enough and consider further improvements after launch.


To be clear, this is what we have done. As you say what we have works for now. I am not convinced it’s the most efficient moving forward, but we don’t have the bandwidth to create something even better before launch.


Thanks @dirvine. That is reassuring.


As grand (and very biblical) as this sounds doesn’t the network recycle SNT during the farming process? So how does that work in with this whole Genesis DBC thing? How does the big bang become cyclical?

Basically, DBC from testnet 1 is not the same as DBC from testnet 2 and so on.


There are a fixed number of Safe Network tokens, they simply get traded between resource suppliers and consumers via the network. Just like a fungible token in any other market. If that’s what you mean by recycling?

You can thing of DBC as a delivery mechanism for SNT. So they get split, reissued, moved about, stored, reissued again, go offline, validated online… all that good stuff. But they are just a method for the underlying tokens to change hands and be exchanged for resource and services, and keep flowing round and round in the economy.


Yeah DBCs being a delivery system I got. What is confusing me is the part about there being a grand “Genesis” DBC with no inputs that supposedly isn’t part of the SNT cycle or some such like that. It’s the no inputs spreading tokens across the firmament thing that kind of confuses me.

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The main part of that was and is farming. The difference is that we don’t yet know where the unallocated tokens from that genesis DBC will be, details to come. They could be in the same place as before, controlled by the network (seems less likely now), but the ‘cycle’ can exist regardless:

  • user buys tokens, uses them to pay farmers to store data
  • farmes sell tokens to pay expenses, accumulate profits

That’s the cycle you’re talking about, the difference is whether there’s a pool of unissued tokens held by the network or not.


You know I can’t help but think that there needs to be like a SAFE manga or anime or something to explain what all this stuff does to the layman. You know like anime “Cells at Work”? Well make a “SAFE Network at work” or something.

How are your graphics skillz?

Will a manga ant have impossib;y large eyes and a cute but evil smile ?

Depends on the character I’d be creating. Also not ALL manga/anime characters focus on the eyes or even the chibi look. Try watching more seinen anime for more realistic proportioning.

As to your question about my digital art skills. I could probably come up with something, especially if I hand drew it first, but I probably not at a professional level yet. Though maybe I could work on some concept art in Krita.


I’d be delighted to see your attempts, pro level or not.

Please share them so we can add dialogue :slight_smile:

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@Bogard The point of my comment was NOT to bash the great progress that has been made in the latest implementation. Instead, it was a nostalgic reference back to the promise of @dirvine’s Safecoin classic. In a broader context, I think there are some interesting opportunities here for a more robust ecosystem if both approaches work together in combination… ring-ct dbc as a secure foundation, with a classic safe coin as a second “safer” layer.

In an abstract sense, the dbc + ringCT work is analogous to a federated banking/mint system using checks, balance transfers, and facilitates the possibility to split DBCs to any level of divisibility. The classic safecoin approach was representative of physical coins or hard currency that exist as discrete units that simply have ownership transfered p2p just like any other network datatype without the need of a bank/mint.

In the traditional banking/financial system, both of these representations of the underlying currency exist as mechanisms to transfer value and offer different pros/cons. It would appear that permissioned CRDTs at a fixed xor address could allow for simple denominations (1 SNT, 10 SNT, 0.01 SNT) that can be simply traded like Safecoin classic without the need to return to the ringCT mint, unless you wanted to “cash” it in for use as a normal spentbook entry, or “make change” to create other simple denominations. For some transactions is can be preferable to “write a check” whereas for others, to just “drop a coin”.

Rather than go further off-topic, these ideas can be brainstormed here.


can someone explain how offline money transfer works? would it need an offline computer to produce the offline transfer or you would also calculate the needed numbers to make the offline transer?


Copy the DBC data packet to a memory stick, or email it, or …

Then the receiver copies back to the safe network and presents it when they want to spend it