Uber for SAFE network

Apps
23

Certainly. But there is a difference… Most lobbying is defensive. I am in business, and the government threatens to shut me down via regulation, taxes or imprisonment… I go to Washington and do what it takes to make sure that they do not do that – Usually at some expense, and some form of legal graft…

If you go by the default assumption that people are free, they ought to be able to do what they can do to make a living without asking a whole bunch of permission or paying a massive licensing fee…

When you use the government to kill competition that is evil, when attempt to protect yourself from government that is less evil. Governments always wind up being like Mafia families demanding protection money in the long run, because they are what they are…

24

I don’t think what you’re saying holds weight. It’s not exclusively a competition problem and not derived from anything socialist but regulation that has been influenced/corrupted by a top down structure which in most cases comes from large centralized groups be it a union or corporate entity. Regulation is so poorly done and easily captured that it could be regulated. It’s all patch work. But I think money and mans greed are often the systemic cause.

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25

Either it was the taxi lobby who bribed government to create the monopoly. (capitalist)

Or it was an aspiring politician who rose in power by promising cooperation instead of competition to taxi drivers (socialist)

You have to pick one or another as the reason of why the freedom to taxi was removed from the people. But this is beside the point which is that all forms of government are illegitimate, and we need something like safe to allow us to practice our right to free taxi.

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26

No.

It was the godvernment who regulated the taxi service. It wasn’t the lobbyist. After all, the godvernment has the power to write laws. Not lobbyist. The godvernment has the power to print money. Not lobbyist.

Your facts are wrong.

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27

Corporation only exist if the state exist. Corporation is a by-product from the state.

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28

Western Democratic governments don’t know what to regulate or what not to regulate unless somebody asks them to. They don’t know the ins and outs of most any business unless an insider educates them…

One industry ties to suppress another using influence over the government, that causes an arms race where the other industries try to buy enough influence to defend themselves – before long we get into the state where we are now — The government is in everything and I cannot pull out a pair of Scissors without getting permission from the state first…

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29

No. They don’t care about that. They do it because they want to be in power. They do it because they don’t like competition. Regulations are the only way to get services under control of the regime. That’s why you see monopoly of ISP, oil, housing, lands, and so forth. They all operate under the state rule. If any other business dare to compete and not give them cut will be face with threats of violence. Heres the fact, the godvernment operates on coercive tools. They are the only business in the world that operates such tools.

Here’s the image of a typical godvernment shill / statist. . They always say the same thing. Complain that non tax-payers are using their service because they don’t pay taxes.

If you had to point that out then…

Uber/lyft was invented, and now being oppressed by the state. The
statist/socialist are destroying their means of production. (Smashing uber/lyft
vehicles. Ban in several cities. )

Bitcoin was invented, and now being oppressed by the state. (Need
bank account to buy btc. Cash is risky since law enforcement can kidnap
you at the spot. Bit license in NYC.)

Starts private protection agency, gets bombed by the state. (Waco, Move, Black panthers.)

How can I use other service if you statist keep destroying it?

And then you statist turns around, and force me to use your service.

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31

Yep - definitely time to mute this thread,

32

They have no choice. The survival of anyone in society DEPENDS on being friendly with the ‘man’ with the gun. Certainly, if they didn’t have to bribe the State to survive, then they wouldn’t (profit incentive and all).

Now it’s true that their are evil people out there who will get cozy with the ‘man’ with the gun in order to push out their competition … but that’s just another argument for why we need to work to get rid of the ‘man’ with the gun - to make him obsolete.

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33

Well sorry. I got out of hand. I am just really annoyed by people who still supports godvernment despite of their actions in the past 1000+ years. We just need the right godvernment, they said. Sadly, tribalism still exist today. To reverse the10,000 years brain pattern, and move forward is the hardest thing that human can do.

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34

Hopefully things like seasteads and economic free zones will help us move forward. I believe that strong anonymity of data (and hence digital money) will also lead to our freedom.

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35

Gosh, the more I read into this I really wonder in which world some people are living. “Terrorism”, “taxi cartel”…one must really feel bad for poor poor Uber. Of course, if you consider a law as “terrorism” then basically every social contract is pure “terror”. Those who chime in this gospel don´t realize how much they sound like “governments” they are criticizing. If you seriously believe that organized labor is the same as “cartels”, you should meet up with people like Donald Trump, they will certainly share the spirit of your argument.

The taxi drivers are complaining for very good reasons, because the market is dumped with drivers who bypass regulations - regulations which also take care of social standards for employees and customers. We could discuss dozens of this cases that came up with the “web 2.0”. I give you another example from “mean” and “bribed” governments oppressing the liberty of people: Not long ago, the federal government of Berlin prohibited the use of AirBnB in the city. Obviously it has to be a conspiracy of governments and the hotel cartel! As with every conspiracy theory, there needs to be be probability rather than proof. What actually took place in Berlin was that within monthes the rents skyrocketed far beyond the normal development because people started to offer their flats on AirBNB on such a massive scale that the scarcity of living room was pushed beyond limits. There were even people renting flats to then offer it on AirBnB. Since then a large part of the population of Berlin has an increasing problem with paying rents - due to many reasons, but AirBnB was one factor that scaled up rapidly and threatened people who cannot move every few weeks/months. Also, in Berlin, there is a lot of investment in private homes, however, leading to more high priced real estate. Gentrification is real and certainly not good for “the people” but for large investors.

Everyone but the few who were able to profit from increasing tourism is glad that regulation with AirBnB took place. Some here act as if regulations are always in favor of “governments” (whoever that is, it´s always easiest to flame faceless entities) and always against freedom. Fact is, there are more reasons than exploitation for regulations. In the discussed case, social contracts actually prevent people from exploitation and I am not talking only about taxi drivers but also those who work for Uber.

And then…“corporation only exist if the state exist”…just wow… some people appear to believe that once you destroy the state there will be no poltical system. As long as there is society, there are regulations. Besides: infrastructures like networks of energy or the internet are also a by-product from the state, now what? Cut your cables, viva la revolución! (i guess)

36

The wonderful thing about open source software is that it lowers the amount of capital required to compete in a market. This allows new entrepreneurship from people who could not afford to enter the market before. This irks the incumbents, but so be it. It is good for the markets when more competitors can play.

People ought to be free to earn a living without asking for a permission from 27 different government agencies.

It is needless to explain that Governments are prone to govern, regulators are prone to regulate, police are prone to police, militaries are prone to war, prosecutors tend to prosecute etc etc . – in large part weather the need to or not. Bias of mission. When the organization you work is named ______ it is going to feel like it is not doing its job if it does not __________.

The fact that industries ask governments for regulations that favor themselves isn’t a “conspiracy”. It is just what they do. And it is what they should do. The fact that the non-squeaky wheel gets screwed most of the time is just what happens. Governments can be very dangerous. They can regulate you to do things that cannot be done. They can tax you to death. They can remove your right to do whatever it is that you are doing on a whim in 57 different ways. If they threaten your livelihood you squeak. It isn’t a conspiracy - it is just the way it is. Any sane man will do what he can to get regulations that are favorable over the ones that will put him out of business.

Government is incompetent by nature because it is regulating things that it does not do and does not know. The only way it knows what the rules ought to be is to ask people who care… The people who care are not usually unbiased…

The anarchists will equate governments with terrorism because they use men with guns to make people do thing that they might otherwise not be willing to do., or to stop them from doing something that they want to do. It may be an exaggeration, but I know plenty of people who have been terrified for good reason.

Yes, We are working around the ISP centralization problem too… It is only a matter of time. Technology is becoming cheaper and cheaper, faster and faster… Mesh networks will be practical sooner than later…

37

[quote=“jreighley, post:36, topic:4707”]
It is needless to explain that Governments are prone to govern, regulators are prone to regulate,… [/quote]

Seriously your image of politics sounds like a Micky Mouse cartoon. It is a meaningless to say that governments govern, what matters is what governing precisely means and this is different depending on the government. You make it sound as if governing was always the same and if you´d have alook around the world, you would know that this has anything to do with reality.

“The fact that industries ask governments for regulations that favor themselves isn’t a “conspiracy”. It is just what they do.”

Anyone here argued that industries don’t lobby, so obviously you need a strawman to make a point. What you don´t mention is a) not only “industries” do lobby work and b) that not all polititians consider themselves as mere translators of lobbyist.

It’s the kind of world view I often hear from people who have never been into politics but “read alot about it”. Corrupt politians are not an invention, they exist - what is an invention is “the polititian” as a corrupt being. What happened in Berlin was the work of polititians who listened to their peer group - there is no doubt about that. However, the peer group are not only “industries” as you want to make believe, it includes many citizens who are affected by the moves of large corporations such as AirBnB and Uber and need to defend from them.

You talk about governments the same way that people use(d) to talk about “the jews” or “the black” - as if they were faceless and had always the same characteristics.

"Government is incompetent by nature because it is regulating things that it does not do and does not know. "

Actually I wonder where you take the impudance to claim that “government” in general is incompetent, since that would imply that you have the competence to judge that.

"The anarchists will equate governments with terrorism because they use men with guns to make people do thing that they might otherwise not be willing to do., or to stop them from doing something that they want to do. "

Uhm…just out of interest. How many anarchist groups do you know? Are you aware many anarchist use weapons to make people do things that they might otherwise not be willing to do or to stop them from doing something that they want to do (by the same phoney argument EVERYONE uses weapons: to defend).

It is astonishing how people here are defending large corporations like Uber which are monopolizing the market to define prices against governments which have to fight with the side effects. I feel like in the middle of a neocon convent.

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38

Many of the folks within the Bitcoin community and the rest of the cryptography do not thing that governments are the solution to most problems.

I know how competent government is where I interface with it. I can compare it to transactions with other entities. One can judge for themselves, but I am confident that most people interface with government as little as they can get away with, because it is rarely a pleasant experience.

It is what it is, we are here for a reason, and that is to maximize freedom.

I don’t have an opinion of Uber corporation one way or another, but I do think paying a million dollars for a taxi medallion is surefire sign that there is some corruption at play. In general I think the cost of going into business ought to be as low as possible, as the only true way to earn what you are worth is to work for yourself. I do know people who where down to their last dollars and where able to keep their houses and cars etc because of the opportunities provided by Lyft, Uber, AirBnB etc… So in general I support the idea that people ought to be free to work for themselves without paying a massive tax to the powers that be.

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39

I guess you see that there is a difference between thinking that governments cannot solve every problem and framing them as “incompetent by nature”, right?

Yeah, I know this type of people, particularly in western democracies: complaining about polititians to do things wrong but unwilling to do it better. Politics are NEVER a pleasant experience. They are by definition unpleasant and they don´t cease to be unpleasant if you do not have a government, because as long as there are different people, there are different interests. If you prefer not to stand up for your rights, you should not complain about losing them.

Actually this sounds like a word bubble you would expect from a polititian. The word freedom means nothing if it is not filled with meaning. If freedom means club law, you will find out very soon that it may be better to create unions (that is delegating freedom/power).

Massive tax…Low as possible…aha…and that is? You decide what´s lowest or who? Low taxes, yes, that sounds really great. Many people love it, particularly right wing libertarians. Taxes have to be as low as possible. The less government the better! But when the state cannot afford to pay for roads and bridges because people don´t pay enough taxes, then does the most logical thing, that is privatizing the roads, and if then users of roads have to pay massive fees that go much beyond what they had to pay in advance as taxes…then everybody is frustrated about the “bad politics” that have been carried out. The examples for this are legion. You are arguing against net neutrality and apparently don´t even see it.

40

Argue away about what is right or wrong. All of that is well outside of the realm either of us control. The technology is what is exciting and it is coming weather anyone likes it or not. Much of our financial sector and regulators will go the way of AT&T MCI and Sprint of the late 90’s Big expensive products will be gone altogether… And I can still make calls of the same quality…

I am not proposing one government or another, just a technology to make government less necessary. In general, I think people should be able to transact transparently and with as little interference as possible. Where technology enables that it is a good thing. Central control means one stop shopping for corruption. Corruption happens unintentionally as often as it happens intentionally. Lots of unintended consequences when you monkey with weights and measures and add a bunch of middlemen.

Uber is disruptive because it is doing what the internet did the AT&T. Inefficiencient beurocratic monopolies cannot win against commodity level competitions. And that is what a ride is.

41

Agreed. Using godvernment as an solution goes against the nature of bitcoin, and decentralized platforms. And it is a true fact that crypto-anarchist, ancaps, and certain anarchist groups are spending their free time to build new platforms that defiance the coercive system. A lot of changes in technology happened because of these people, even statist who partake the cause such as Richard Stallman. They don’t realized that these technology is making godvernment obsolete, while enabling individual freedom.

And to that uber comment that it is a corporation that exploit people labor. I don’t even. It is really that common sense. People choose the hours, rates, and reputation. They’re not monopolizing, instead they are creating a competition. Now we have lyft. Shocking! And there are bus apps. Even more shocking! They are competing against the taxis, and public buses. Taxis has two ways to deal with this issue is to build a better service than them or lose business. Here’s the fact, price mechanism disappears in taxi cartels, and other godvernment service. How do you hold them accountable? Voting?

Taxation is theft. How are you going to steal my coin? Point a gun at me? Kidnap me? Throw in a jail? People are free, and has 100 percent complete control of their income. No person has a higher power over them to decide on how they spend. Last thing, Asking permission to do things is a proof that you do not own yourself. You’re encouraging statism behavior on a decentralized platform. Hilarious. Since you support taxation and government, you should not use bitcoin or any other decentralized platform.

42

I remember Burt Rutan saying about 20 years ago that the airlines would be put out of business by something like Uber within 10 years.

He was early on his prediction, but it is likely that the day is coming.

43

You know, I have absolutely no problems if you prefer not to pay taxes. Really, you should! However, don´t forget to NOT use roads, fiberglass, or water supply etc. which exist because of the taxes that I pay. Oh and please don´t call the police in case someone is physically threatening you, otherwise you should not use bitcoin or any other decentralized platform…lol

[quote=“anon81773980, post:41, topic:4707”]
And to that uber comment that it is a corporation that exploit people labor. I don’t even. [/quote]

Yep, you don´t, because most likely you are not a taxi driver, thus have any sort of experience of the exploitation that takes place. Actually your comment clearly shows how you lack of insight about the whole Uber debate and the social effects that services like Uber and AirBnB caused. You also appearently believe that competition is always fair while “government” is always unfair. There´s not much to discuss, only to recommend: go out and catch some fresh air because the world is not as simple as you would like to have it. You will probably find out why I have a different opinion than your black/white idea of the world and still love to use my Bitcoin.

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