Thursdays are back! [Update - July 15th, 2021]

Guys do you still believe maidsafe will release something real for all? No fud here!

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Yes, no need to keep asking this kind of question.

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I’m really excited even for simple DBC implementation in T7 but I’m also stoked to see how @JimCollinson is coming along with any DBC related UI!

Hoping upload is drastically improved with the parallelism in SE.

Keep chugging team and thanks for bringing back the updates.

Also welcome back @chriso!

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I wish you could just stop this constant kicking the team in the stomach. It’s getting beyond a joke now. I strongly suggest you bugger off and let this happen. The thought we are all working for no purpose is … well I cannot describe it, but as I have said previously, negative energy is poison to a project. So please stop poisoning this project and go somewhere else where you can be happy.

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It’s amazing isn’t it? Mr/Mrs/Ms @Lackys, last seen 8 weeks ago moaning about a Maid price drop, suddenly pops up again to muddy the waters when Maidsafe step up to communicate progress. Almost as if he/she/it didn’t have anything better to do with their lives.

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Yes I do. Actually, they already have done so. @dask just put it together in another thread recently, I quote it here (and add a list formatting, I hope you don’t mind @dask):

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On the upside @Lackys throwing such softballs only shows how easy such negatives are turned. Zero impact here where other projects would struggle to evidence the progress being made. The lazy just need to read the updates and wonder how so much progress gets done!

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Also nice to see how quickly this update got 50 likes in a silent summer Thursday. We are here.

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Thanks so much to the entire Maidsafe team for all of your hard work! :racehorse:

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Its getting close! Exciting times!

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Reading about how DBC is actually old yet being integrated into something (Safe Net) that can actually utilize it was quite something. It’s happening!?

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It is important question.
There always a need to look critically at the progress.

There are three different things: what is desired process, what is actually happening and how it is perceived by observers. Ideally, they should match.
I see two way communications to outside world from the team, but since questions rises, some communication aspects may be developed not enough.
So “working for no purpose” can be transformed into “all is going well, but for some reason some people can’t understand what is happening”.

I did not track what happened previously with @Lackys, but I think there is no need to be angry at him.
If he can describe what is wrong, it may be useful to debug a problem (social problems have similarities to technical ones). If not, then community and team should have immunity to ungrounded criticism. There will be always people, who do not like product. Look at YouTube for example. It is almost impossible to have 0 dislikes for relatively popular video.

I hope that project can be successful no matter what energy fluctuations are happening :slight_smile:

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I tend to agree @Vort but Lackys has a bit of history. He’s gotten less overtly negative in recent times but he doesn’t post unless it’s to make some kind of subtle dig on no beta or official release. :man_shrugging: Think he left a bad taste in most peoples mouths so he kinda tarnished his reputation a bit. To a degree that it’d likely take quite a bit to come back from I reckon.

But this isn’t about him. We got updates back! And it’s nice to get a steady stream of what’s going on behind the curtains.

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Every time SN testnet tries to become decentralized, it either crashes, hangs or lose data. So no, it is not decentralized yet.

The question is “what prevents SN from working?”. No precise answer for it is a problem. Either technical or social.
If it was possible to evolve “v6.2” into working state with just bugfixing, then why not to do this?
If it is not possible without DBC, which means previous approach completely failed, then why no one talks about it?

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The test nets haven’t lasted an impressive amount of time, yet. But nodes from home do connect and store and retrieve data for a brief time. So yes clearly there is an or are multiple issues but it doesn’t mean the concept is fundamentally broken anymore than it can’t last too long.

Seemed like the messages were still causing OOM issues if I remember correctly, which eventually bogged down nodes and then errors going everywhere.

I think your criticism is highly valuable @Vort, especially since you get your hands dirty with the test nets right away. Logging and improvements being done are being done to help solve those obvious but not so obvious problems.

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And the concept of distributed storage in a redundant way is not new and works already. Usually used for large storage across few nodes but it is a standard filesystem that can be installed. I remember doing it in 2006. Have to look up the file system again. I want to say gfs.

Now SAFE is doing more than it did and in a more distributed way. As @Nigel says the basic system is working, just the normal run of alpha testing bugs being ironed out with some changes.

Also when MaidSafe do internal tests they are also on a distributed system in a more controlled way. To be fearful at this time when we are in alpha testing, with a basic working system that has bugs is premature at best.

If we had these troubles in systems/networks called beta testing or worse release candidate testing then I might be concerned, although not fearful depending on exactly the issues.

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There have been a couple of people plus or minus at any given time who have been posting like how Lackys do. I’ve never really been troubled by it. Maybe others are, and that’s nothing for me to say anything about. But I personally don’t consider it an issue. If there are many people writing like that, then maybe there is something I need to hear there. If just the same few, not much to care about.

Anyway, I think @Vort’s view is sensible. What he expresses also tells me that the communication can be better.

Let me start with the question of why the testnets have gone down so soon, and why DBC now etc.

The AT2 payment system has had very little to do with the testnets hanging or data loss. DBC is not a way to fix that.
DBC was going in and now was a good time to take it in.
The AT2 system was implemented in a way that added to other existing causes of slow upload. The batching of payments could have been implemented for AT2 as well, but since we were going over to DBC we just skipped that.

Other causes of slow upload, or hangs or data losses have been about different things. Self encryption is implemented in a way that currently makes it slower than it needs to be. There were details in how adult liveness was handled that hindered query responses coming back to client. There were some issues with error handling/timeouts in qp2p. There have been more things, and there still are some there, and others are to come.

Batched payments and ops (remember, this is not a DBC thing per se), and different replication strategies (local first, to network when X) requires some refactoring of self encryption. Other work is ongoing with data types, how metadata and chunks are separated, what types are used and how. This also affects rewards, and payment system sets some boundaries in how that can be deviced as well. There is also lots of slimming down because of it, refactoring and some new code with data handling (also with messaging) which means this is a good time to review old conceptions and lay things down as they should, with all the information we have now. That includes adapting it to our imminent use of DBCs, instead of the deprecated system.

The work with finding out what causes the testnet issues is always ongoing, and it is in some places related to other work (such as that mentioned above) and sometimes less related. There’s also more or less clarity on what the cause is, where it is best attacked. It is not always a simple question of a single fix, since there can be many different parts contributing, and for each and every part there can be design decisions that influence in a gradual way.

Much more can be said, but I have to head out for breakfast, and I’m probably not around much to answer follow up questions now since I’m on vacation.
Anyway, hope that helps a bit @Vort.

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If you do then you will see why. In good news streams he pops up with pure negativity to kill any celebrations.

It will, but negativity does slow a team and can kill it. Not we want all positivity, but as you do, we crave critique that is founded on something, anything. It’s just the uninformed negativity that seems targetted with the purpose of price manipulation or something that is useless.

We all have to cope with it, we are in the world, but we don’t need to stand still and accept it. I hope I do for a while but after more than a year of unfounded negativity then it’s time to say, enough!.

Hope that helps frame the dismissive response from me. The team are working hard and are dedicated, they don’t need that kind of critique, but as I say we all crave folk finding actual fault/questions etc. as that only improves us all.

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Obviously 99.9% people dont understand what is going on github.com/maidsafe include me.

So they shout “what the fuxk is going on now?.” Well I understand but I think team do hard refactoring and do what SN needs (At2, DBC etc) since 2012. And I believe this attitude and funding to this attitude and knowledge of team.

So what can we do? Well we just need and have to wait until party start. That is all we need and what we can. Criticism? Haha well @Vort if you want to be a constructive critical advisor, go to github not this forum. That is meaningful.

@Lackys I think you better to sell it for you peaceful mind. Life is beautiful dont waste your time what you dont understand.

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Seems like the difference between FUD and constructive criticism. The latter is appreciated, whereas the former is not.

Thanks for update! Sounds like things continue to move forward and T7 will be a belter!

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