I have been meaning to write this article for sometime now, my hope is that those that
have the power over the project’s direction would at least reflect on the points been
made here. Before, proceeding, a little bit of history will be useful. I invested in the
maidsafe ICO rather than the ethereum ICO because I actually thought that
maidsafe will be the storage technology of choice for blockchains. The role that
IPFS, SWARM is playing today. I have not slit my wrist because I later invested
in ethereum at $7. One more thing, I have not sold 1 MAID or ETHER because, I
am a long-term investor, I invest in technology that I believe is ground breaking.
So, the MAIDSAFE technology is ground breaking. Fair enough, but does anybody
remember VHS v BETAMAX or MS DOS v MAC OS operating systems. The
best technology does not win, if an inferior technology has a big installed base
or (and) development community momentum.
Maidsafe has been in development for years (prior to the ico) because one
small team is trying to build a significant proportion of the platform components,
rather than building the core and specifying how other components should be
built to interoperate with the core.
It is probably too late for maidsafe to change course, but I needed to get this
off my chest.
I still wish the project the best success. I will hold the coin way past beta release
and see how it goes. But Maidsafe should be worth north of $3bn right now with
the right business model, which actually DRIVES the technical model.
My understanding is that only the core components are being built at the moment. Yes there maybe a team working on some of the UI, but really you need to do at least a little to get it going.
I am wondering what you think Maidsafe is doing that is NOT part of the core system?
Can you explain what you mean here. I don’t recall Maidsafe ever being built for storage of/for blockchains.
My understanding is that only the core components are being built at the moment. Yes there maybe a team working on some of the UI, but really you need to do at least a little to get it going.
I am wondering what you think Maidsafe is doing that is NOT part of the core system?
I have tried not to make my post a discussion about Maidsafe’s technical architecture! The
architects have defined core components they need to build. The topic, I have linked to
(see below) from this forum in sept 2014 is illuminating.
maidsafe will be the storage technology of choice for blockchains
Can you explain what you mean here. I don’t recall Maidsafe ever being built for storage of/for blockchains.
Maidsafe obviously have applications outside blockchain storage. Nobody, is saying that is
was designed as a blockchain storage technology BUT that was a market segment that
would impact safecoins value as well as drive developer momentum. At least that was
the conclusion some of us reached 3 years ago when all these was new and ripple and
ethereum where the new programmatic blockchains. Keep in mind that bitcoin and litecoin
were the ONLY serious blockchains around at that point.
Furthermore, competing with amazon, azure etc is not going to be a walk in the park.
Anyway, like I said, the discussion below is quite illuminating
EDIT: Quoted post was changed [quote=“agamemnon, post:3, topic:15026”]
Nobody, is saying that is just designed as a blockchain storage technology
[/quote]
I guess I am saying that SAFE is nothing to do with blockchain storage. While you might be able to somehow store a blockchain on SAFE, SAFE is not about blockchain storage at all, nix, nada.
By saying that SAFE is trying to build a significant of the whole and not just the core, you have made a discussion on the basic architecture. This is simply because to make a statement like that you have to have an idea of what the core is and what the (significant portion of) whole is. Without that knowledge of what you mean by the terms that statement has no meaning.
The reason I point that out is that you say Maidsafe should stick to the core, and by my understanding they are sticking to the core. So in fact they are doing exactly what you say the should
I guess I am at a loss (after reading that article) to what you see as the wrong direction. They are working on the core and a couple of simple demo apps
I guess I am saying that SAFE is nothing to do with blockchain storage. While you might be able to somehow store a blockchain on SAFE, SAFE is not about blockchain storage at all, nix, nada.
correction. you do not store the blockchain on swarn or ipfs. you store data USED by the blockchain
on these technologies.
By saying that SAFE is trying to build a significant of the whole and not just the core, you have made a discussion on the basic architecture. This is simply because to make a statement like that you have to have an idea of what the core is and what the (significant portion of) whole is. Without that knowledge of what you mean by the terms that statement has no meaning.
The reason I point that out is that you say Maidsafe should stick to the core, and by my understanding they are sticking to the core. So in fact they are doing exactly what you say the should
anything you are building for 10 or more years is a big core indeed
Exactly. SAFE is not some storage system, but a secure storage/access system. This requires protocols to be built that are both of those things otherwise the storage is neither.
The other projects are not this.
The reason that people talk of SAFE as a new internet is that the secure access/storage is what makes up an internet. The Apps will make up the replacement for the web.
SAFE == core
APPs == other devs.
Exactly. SAFE is not some storage system, but a secure storage/access system. This requires protocols to be built that are both of those things otherwise the storage is neither.
The other projects are not this.
The reason that people talk of SAFE as a new internet is that the secure access/storage is what makes up an internet. The Apps will make up the replacement for the web.
SAFE == core
APPs == other devs.
I do not think you get the point…and perhaps there is need for me to persist with this conversation.
Value is what the market thinks and the size of the user base. Not what you or I think. My message
is to the devs. that message is this: with a different strategy, maidsafe should be worth much more right now with a bigger development community. I have earned the right to make these observations, because, I invested a significant amount at the beginning, I held on to that investment and probably know much more about this (technical and commercial) than you!
I do apologize, if I am abrupt. But, I think, I joined this forum shortly after it was set-up when we
moved from the original home on google groups. To start lecturing me about maidsafe is irritating
Fine, then my opinions about how I feel Maidsafe is going in right direction must be faulty.
I’ll retire from the conversation and stop hogging the discussion.
But just so I can understand things is this still the basis for Maidsafe taking too long?
And the fact that they are only working on the core (+simple UI for test/demo) is wrong? Which then is a major reason Maidsafe is not worth 3 billion. That they should have developed a (slightly) different product that could have been produced by now?
And the fact that they are only working on the core (+simple UI for test/demo) is wrong? Which then is a major reason Maidsafe is not worth 3 billion. That they should have developed a (slightly) different product that could have been produced by now?
This is a part of the roadmap on the maidsafe website:
Our immediate development focus (alpha 2) is to provide Mutable Data and authenticator pattern (with the new SAFE API) SAFE Browser DOM APIs and Node.js SDK along with example apps, tutorials and documentation. This new data type and API paradigm is specifically catered for mobile platform support.
mobile platform support is not core. it is a nice feature. But considering how long this thing has
been in development, mobile can wait. Perhaps this is something, another group can do an ICO
and build. My intention was to provide constructive advice. Unfortunately, there are always people
blindly supporting projects that don’t fully understand what is going on and advice like mine get
drawn into an emotional rather than a rational conversation
Might I suggest that having the protocols which are part of the core to support mobile is very much core.
If you cannot allow people (non-Maidsafe) to build mobile platform support for the SAFE network then you lock out 50-75% of people in the world. Mobiles exceed computers in number.
So your concept of core is different than mine so we will have to disagree.
Anyhow I said I’d retire from the conversation so I had better do as I said.
If you cannot allow people (non-Maidsafe) to build mobile platform support for the SAFE network then you lock out 50-75% of people in the world. Mobiles exceed computers in number.
hack, get 5% of them on the platform first and u will have a valuable company!!
Mobile is not slowing down the more core development, nor are the other things which you referred to as the platform (such as the example demo apps).
MaidSafe are as focused as they possibly can be on getting the core network in place, and regardless of when you signed up I don’t see how you can miss this if you follow updates regularly.
I don’t agree with betamax metaphor, but I do get your point. I disagree because there are many factors that determine whether a product gets superceded, and the adoption paths, industry cartels and particularly price, for betamax v VHS, were decisive ingaining market share and setting a standard that then became very difficult to change. Things are very different in respect to MaidSafe and things like IPFS/Storj etc, but I’m not going to go into why if I can possibly avoid it!
In summary, I think MaidSafe have always been and continue to be focused on exactly what you suggest they should be - getting the core to do what it needs to do in order to create the network we all read about at the crowdsale.
The reason it is taking so long is that it is a much more difficult task than those other projects you mention, and that even MaidSafe envisaged. But that’s the nature of doing things that are very ambitious and have never been done before.
I had similar concerns to agemennon but the consensus seems to think we will see something in approx 12 months time. I hope there is a brilliant marketing plan before release of beta. Very little works without a well thought thru marketing plan or strategy
Drama queen much? I think you would have been the first person to slit his wrist for turning an investment into 23 times the amount initially invested. During the crowdsale the price was ~ $0,0154, today it stands at ~ $0,357. Sure it may not have been 400 times as much, but 23 times is a very good investment in almost anyone’s book.
I’m not sure what you want to achieve with this post. All this has been discussed at length before. MaidSafe has been very clear about what they are working on and what they intend to achieve. They have also been very transparent about the progress that has (not) been made.
If you feel the project is not going anywhere or will not make you the profit you want to make then you have a choice to sell your MAID and take a very nice profit on your initial investment. There are lot of other projects looking for investors and I’m sure one of them will be the next Ethereum in terms of profit potential.
well im not a tech guy or u can say very smart in these things. but we shouldn’t fight with each other. we all are like a team. those who are developing are genius and working hard. They are like an engine. And those who are investing , are like a gas to that engine imo. we all should stick together and give importance and respect to each others views. Even this is not a good thing to tell someone to sell ur tokens and go away(no offense please). We all are in it for something. If we will fight in this community it wont reflect a good picture to the others. I think people are getting panic because of the time this project is taking. but offcourse , its not a small project. One should understand that it will take its time. And the second thing is about Marketing. agamemnon is not satisfied with the marketing strategy and the current price imho. Sometimes i feel same too. That this is such an excellent project and most of the people still have no idea what is maidsafe. May be David and Nick should give a little time to plan marketing strategy or may be they already hve done it! who knows. but seeing u guys fighting like this really hurts. And those who raise questions, never forget that these dev’s are working hard and must be encouraged rather then criticized. Come on Team ! Lot of decentralization going on in crypto world.
PS: im expecting lot of hanky phanky and donkey monkey projects to be kicked in the back when MaidSafe is live !
MaidSafe are as focused as they possibly can be on getting the core network in place, and regardless of when you signed up I don’t see how you can miss this if you follow updates regularly.
I do follow the maidsafe project closely and have probably read enough technical documentation
as I could without doing development. in particular, I follow the roadmap page closely and
sometimes read what is been discussed in this forum.
I don’t agree with betamax metaphor, but I do get your point. I disagree because there are many factors that determine whether a product gets superceded, and the adoption paths, industry cartels and particularly price, for betamax v VHS, were decisive ingaining market share and setting a standard that then became very difficult to change. Things are very different in respect to MaidSafe and things like IPFS/Storj etc, but I’m not going to go into why if I can possibly avoid it!
hmm…each of these cases betamax v vhs, mac os v ms dos etc are obviously different. But I am
happy u do get the point. Superior technology does NOT always win. There are many programming
languages that are superior to javascript and php.
The reason it is taking so long is that it is a much more difficult task than those other projects you mention, and that even MaidSafe envisaged. But that’s the nature of doing things that are very ambitious and have never been done before.
This is another way of puting the phrase I have heard so often here: IT WILL BE DONE WHEN IT IS
DONE. It is obvious to me that the technology is ambitious and complex, that is exactly the reason
why the definition of core should have been narrowed down.
I understand who you are and where you are coming from. I also expected this sort of response
from you
I am signing off from this now. I hope the post in some way moves the dial with those that have
the power to change things
I’m not an English language wizard, so I don’t think I understand exactly what you are trying to say. However I’m sure we can argue about the degree of transparency and the lack of exact dates, etc. It is what it is and I think if investors lose confidence because of this they should just sell and take their profit or loss, just as it is with any other investment. The fact that MaidSafe doesn’t give out dates has been discussed over and over again and that’s not going to change. So we can discuss it ten more times, but it won’t change a damn thing.
Personally I disagree that anything needs to change and I very much doubt Troon Towers would be swayed by your points.
This is not a race or competition. VHS and betamax etc is comparing like with like. This isn’t ‘better’ tech, it is totally different tech that achieves different things in a different way. If SAFE were another blockchain then I’d agree with you, but it is so utterly different to every other project as to not be in a race with any of them imo.
SAFE hasn’t needed marketing and it doesn’t need investors to succeed. It doesn’t matter what the market cap is pre launch. Speculation is just that. Only utility actually matters. Eth is still minimum 2 years away from scaling with sharding, so SAFE will be getting active users and utility long before Eth DApps are ready for the mainstream. And as I said, SAFE offers something very different to the rest of them… security, privacy and freedom, all in one place and all from day 1. No blockchain required.
I’d love to imagine myself as the oil or gas in the engine, that would make me feel very good about holding. Sadly I don’t think that’s true. None of the hype or market cap makes its way to maidsafe directly. They aren’t selling a store of value that desperately needs network effect. They are creating something unique. Us selling or holding makes very little difference to them and developers have only just been able to start building their Apps, so there has been no point in trying to attract more of them before now. Marketing would have been a crazy way to prioritise resources imo. All the work necessarily needed to be done as ‘core’.since there are a lot of linked cogs in the machine.
Ethereum went straight for the jugular with smart contracts and they’re working backwards to scale. Maidsafe have done all the hard work first and will build out the community and developer base when the network is ready for them to actually use it.
I absolutely don’t think that Eth’s market cap relative to maidsafe’s somehow means SAFE will be made redundant before it gets it shot. More likely Eth will be made redundant before it finds a way to scale ;).
We are very close to the time when marketing becomes useful and important, but it would have been madness to draw attention before it was ready and spend resources they needed to get it ready.
And a little NB… One of the main reasons VHS beat Betamax was because the porn industry went for VHS. Perhaps we will find the same thing and the stuff human beings actually want will be what drives real-world utility… SAFEnet freedom would be a very powerful thing.
Personally I disagree that anything needs to change and I very much doubt Troon Towers would be swayed by your points.
my post was directed at them and not you actually. They are intelligent enough to know that if you
just listen to those that agree with you, you will not gain any new insights. Especially, when those
insights are crafted in a constructive manner.
This is not a race or competition. VHS and betamax etc is comparing like with like. This isn’t ‘better’ tech, it is totally different tech that achieves different things in a different way. If SAFE were another blockchain then I’d agree with you, but it is so utterly different to every other project as to not be in a race with any of them imo.
SAFE doesn’t need marketing and it doesn’t need investors. It doesn’t matter what the market cap is pre launch. Speculation is just that. Only utility actually matters. Eth is still minimum 2 years away from scaling with sharding, so SAFE will be getting active users and utility long before Eth DApps are ready for the mainstream. And as I said, SAFE offers something very different to the rest of them… security, privacy and freedom, all in one place and all from day 1. No blockchain required.
I’d love to imagine myself as the oil or gas in the engine, that would make me feel very good about holding. Sadly I don’t think that’s true. None of the hype or market cap makes its way to maidsafe directly. They aren’t selling a store of value that desperately needs network effect. They are creating something unique. Us selling or holding makes very little difference to them and developers have only just been able to start building their Apps, so there has been no point in trying to attract more of them before now. Marketing would have been a crazy way to prioritise resources imo. All the work necessarily needed to be done as ‘core’.since there are a lot of linked cogs in the machine.
Ethereum went straight for the jugular with smart contracts and they’re working backwards to scale. Maidsafe have done all the hard work first and will build out the community and developer base when the network is ready for them to actually use it.
I absolutely don’t think that Eth’s market cap relative to maidsafe’s somehow means SAFE will be made redundant before it gets it shot. More likely Eth will be made redundant before it finds a way to scale ;).
you have constructed a whole set of debates you want to have…but I will pass. Got to use time better
