The DAO crowdfunding is live

I am loving every word published by the Ethereum community because they are spending the time, money and resources needed to educate the public on this evolutionary paradigm of decentralization, which will allow SAFE to focus on building a back end that is scalable.

I am very sceptical and haven’t invested any significant amount into the Etherum community due to my lack of understanding of how it will scale (particularly keeping cost of use down) and business partners, but the endless projects that are open source and top quality have me engaged often.

Again I propose to the expert coders of our SAFE community, what would it take to get something that looks like daohub running on SAFE? I think it would beautiful to build a DAO for that specific purpose:)

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They have some trouble explaining the DAO as well I think. Someone asks what it is here on Reddit but if I look at the answers I miss an easy to explain description. In this article someone tries to explain how a DAO could make revenue but it doesn’t really answer the question. So they’ve raised over 4 million dollars even while it’s not really clear how you could ever get your investment back.

I’m not an expert or something, but what I get from it is that the DAO is some sort of unstoppable backend system including votes, accounting and more. So 15 friends decide to raise money for their project, they create the DAO contract and when people send money to the address they can become involved being able to decide when certain expenses are released, who’s in charge of the project and more.

Smart contracts are on the roadmap for SAFE so this is possible on SAFE as well when that’s implemented. Would be great to experiment with. At the same time I’m glad that @dallyshalla has full freedom to run Safex as best as he can and for @Seneca to build Decorum without being bugged by others ;-). When people have great vision and crowdfund some money they should be able to just go for it.

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One of the key things that interests me with DAO’s is the discussion of ownership. When there are talented creators with a profound idea/invention then of course they have an overt claim ownership. Where I think things get muddy is when these ideas and projects require community resources to build/make these inventions a reality. When these products require funding, workers, end-user contributions, to make them a reality…does the originator of the idea still have complete ownership?

I think the answer can be anything, but having an autonomous system that enforces the immunitable originating terms is an attractive concept. Look at facebook and the drama with winklvoss twins or Steve Jobs lost ownership of Apple with dilution of company shares.

Researching DAO’s has me thinking, what would the world look like if Decorum scaled to a trillion dollar platform? Would the early adopters/workers and creator still have a choice of stake in how it runs? Would a trillian dollar DAO decorum platform scale any different?

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DAO Crowdsale Already Raised Over $12 Million from Ethereum Investors
The DAO is meant to serve as an investment fund for early stage Ethereum ventures.

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Anybody interested in building our own SAFE DAO Crowd Sale to fund SAFE development projects? All the stuff to do it is there. I even started a website CrowdSAFE.io that intends to include that function. Could start with a hackathon to kick things off?

We would just need to create a list of curators and well raise funds.

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As long as the token isn’t cheaper than the crowdsale price or as long as there are promising “updates”, there has to be no answer. Example (not picking, it’s just as an example): screenshot from this post:

To be fair, not every project must have revenue. For example when I bought into MAID, I didn’t expect any revenue (I did hope to cash out with some profit).
But that should be stated up front, IMO.

As far as Slock.it is concerned: pleeease! Uber is getting molested everywhere they go and it’s just freaking cabs.
This thing - if it ever takes off which I doubt - will be subject to bans and Gestapo oversight by the authorities.

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No of course, not everything has to have revenue or profit. But when I saw the title of that posts it looked as if they were gonna tell me how revenue could be made :yum:. And it seems the DAO is still not really understand by a lot of people. i think I understand it a bit, as a decentralized, unstoppable organisation on a blockchain where people have voting rights etc. But I still don’t understand the need for a new coin. Why not let people send ETH and than be able to decide if they want to give it to some devs after a vote or proposal?

Oh I think you do, you just don’t like the answer :wink:

[quote=“polpolrene, post:22, topic:8974”]
But I still don’t understand the need for a new coin[/quote]
I think this got a few reasons, why indeed a new coin?

  • A coin enable you to leave “The DAO”, without you having to ask “The DAO” to exit (Imagine a proposal like: Hey boys and girls I don’t like where this DAO is going I want my share and to get out of this).
  • Independence of the Ether price (Ether could be at whatever price, but with a coin “The DAO” token holders could have a complete other value depending on the proposals they execute). (Things could get funny if the “The DAO” tokens are worth more than Ether, who knows they use something like “bitcoin Relay” to make the “The DAO” tokens the new money pool, right now Ether is the money pool.
  • A mechanism to push up the Ether price, because you need Ether to buy DAO tokens.
  • Coins provide liquidity and the feeling of having something of value.
  • “The DAO” tokens are created only if “The DAO” is fed Ether, this is also a mechanism to control inflation, this of course depends on who decide if more coins can be created after the crowdsales.

There are many more scenario’s, but it’s just a fun and interesting experiment :stuck_out_tongue:

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If you actually knew, you wouldn’t be posting links to these projects.

The fundamental reason is only one: to raise funds. And funds are raised to transfer the risk to investors (and as far as the founders are concerned, it allows them to benefit from the plan rather than the finished product/service).

Seriously? Let us know when any of those DAO’s makes profit.

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No need for a new coin. If the DAO contract received all that money in plain Ether they would have money as well.

No need for a new coin :relaxed:. If you leave you just get out of the contract taking your ETH with you.

And another thing to point out is that people can hijack a project. Let’s see the DAO is helping 15 projects with votes, funds to devs and more. Now here comes that awful Chinese millionaire that really has no clue about any of these projects. But he’s buying up so much DAO-tokens with 20 different ID’s that he’s now able to take over on of these projects, going straight against the will of the devs/founders of a project. Doesn’t sound attractive at all to me.

I see it more as a learning process, if a project can raise more than $15 M in less than 7 days, I think it’s worth taking notes. I’m not giving anyone investment advice here.

Are you serious? because right now it looks like everybody can invest in something, but they all want something of more value in return. I for instance invested in the SAFE Network, because I love the idea of an super secured internet, SAFEcoins are to launch my apps and keep my data safe.

These things take time, we can revisit this talk within 2 years.

As far as I understand it everybody’s Ether is on the address: 0xbb9bc244d798123fde783fcc1c72d3bb8c189413

That address only moves funds, based upon a proposal and a vote of all the “The DAO” token holders. If you would want your Ether back, it has to take a few steps (proposal/voting), with a coin, you can just sell the coin on a exchange and your done. Imagine if 100 people want to leave, would “The DAO” have to get 100 proposal/100 votes, way to labor intensive especially if the idea is to be profitable.

DAO-token holders make 2 votes, 1 for the proposal and a second if they think that it was a 51% attack. If you own 51% of something, will you try to destroy 49%? Although you make a good point, scam proposals could still steal money from the “The DAO”. To be honest scams could be minimized with milestones and transparent companies (faces & reputation). Although this sounds crazy, but in the future people who put up proposals (service providers) could also be demanded to put up their private property to make sure that they take a job serious. Who know’s real world lawyers will need to sign a crypto signature, to make a deal work or the service provider have to upload their real world passport viewable to the DAO token holders.

An advantage of a coin in this DAO set up, is that people can leave “The DAO” if it’s being abused.

PS “The DAO” is not investment advice, this is investment advice: Invest in n99, because if you invested in Maidsafecoin:stuck_out_tongue:

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I have to agree with this. I see many crypto projects pass by over the years, and many times I get the feeling that new crypto coins (or whatever name they have these days) inside the project/product are invented ONLY for this purpose. Since I’m not really technical I cannot fully judge this opinion, so I’m left with only my guts feeling, but it keeps me from investing in just any project out there. And that includes DAO.

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Well, what would you sell (give to those who crowd-fund your DAO) if not these tokens?
If you give them equity (tokens) in return, then legally you’ve sold securities, so it’s always an app-token/fuel/software-license type of deal - these DAOists want even less risk (or more money, since less has to be spent on lawyers) than your average “greedy” startup from the fiat world :wink:
(I already said this on the other topic few weeks back and unsurprisingly didn’t get many likes…)

??? That’s what I said. I said I didn’t expect “profit” from my investment in MAID - I expected they’d do something that gives me and others value.

You can revisit the MaidSafe crowdsale from a profit perspective, it’s been more than 2 years, hasn’t it?
Or do you mean to say 2018 will be the year of profits for everyone regardless of when they raised funds?

You don’t need to sell anything. You could write the code, upload the contract to the Blockchain and ask a small fee from every project that works over your system. People could put in 10 or whatever amount of ETH in the DAO and decide which project to back.

That much is clear. I said this above:

And funds are raised to transfer the risk to investors (and as far as the founders are concerned, it allows them to benefit from the plan rather than the finished product/service).

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Locks are only the surface - the significance of what they’ve done is far deeper. They’ve essentially created a system to control a physical thing (connected to electricity) via the blockchain. That is a low-level, fundamental property the can be applied creatively to many things – far beyond locks.

I’m sorry, but that is completely wrong.

There is absolutely no reason why anyone would need these “Smart Sontracts”. Things (products, services) are governed by laws of the real world (where they exist) and not in InTheoreum.

Why would anyone pay for this “fuel” nonsense when the same can be done on a good old Web site, faster and more conveniently (proven by Uber’s mobile apps)?

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I agree with @janitor here, why do we need a blockchain and contract for that? I understand the idea from a tech perspective and also understand the need to try it out. But this is a whole company raising money to provide people to open and close hotel doors, create decentralized Ubers and more. Uber is doing great, same for the hotels I checked in. Ohw, and maybe they can do far more. Probably. But name me one cool killer app for Slock.it ?? Maybe I miss something. And some criminals are already controlling thousands of computers from clueless people in botnets. They didn’t need any smart contract either as they “control computer chips, network cards and memory over a centralized network”. Woow, sounds almost amazing.

This is what real innovation looks like IMO. Thought control of robotic arms using the BrainGate system

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The best use case I heard of for this was to enable charging of electric vehicles on the go. Charging points under the road surface, Computer negotiating and paying for charge, Overcomes need for multiple contracts in places like Europe,

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