Storj - THERE IS NO CLOUD: it’s just someone else’s computer

https://medium.com/@storjproject/there-is-no-cloud-it-s-just-someone-else-s-computer-6ecc37cdcfe5#.74q8b6zfx

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This is exactly why you do not want to know who stores your data or who’s data you store :wink:

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Tangential topic:

I almost joined in on http://blog.storj.io/post/140811990373/metadisk-alpha-release-50000-sjcx-rewards and wrote some code against their API until I read it and saw it is hitting an HTTP endpoint at https://api.metadisk.org (ref https://github.com/Storj/metadisk-client) and that the backend implementation uses Mongo to store buckets in a centralized way even if the data isn’t (ref https://github.com/Storj/metadisk-api/blob/master/lib/storage/models/bucket.js). Isn’t this the exact type of centralization we want to avoid?

https://storj.io/faq.html#faq-2-10 for the question of “Will by files be safe from censorship […]?” the answer is “Yes. Your files will be encrypted, copied, and distributed around the world, rendering them immune to censorship […]”. Unless I misunderstand this centralized API, the lack of anonymity provided (no, TLS is not enough) is definitely a point of censorship so the answer is disingenuous at best. I looked elsewhere (granted I may leverage storj itself, but not this metadisk stuff). Anyone please correct me if I’m misinterpreting this.

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The question is will Storj beat us to the market? What do you see as the pros and cons?

I don’t think this is the same race

On one hand there is enthusiasts interested in decentralized storage;

On the hand there is MaidSafe, that is completing a full solution addressing the privacy concerns for data of the globe in a system that scales to the expanse of all computers.

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Thanks for pointing out the differences and advantages of the SAFE Network.

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Well technically your files will be safe from censorship.
It is the service itself that won’t be safe from censorship, but even that could be safe if you decide to use a community server on Tor (for example). And don’t forget that MaidSafe will run seed servers (which is much more robust and private, but still).

My point is, it’s not as bad as you say, but it’s not as good as Safe either. It’s just a different kind of P2P application. For certain things it could run better, for others (which seem to outnumber the first category) not as good as SAFE.

It is very dangerous to confuse bootstrapping nodes with centralized API nodes. One is for getting on the network (due to NAT and residential network issues, this is a common problem with DHT’s) and the other is centrally storing the names of my things. If I go to someone and say “see my bucket on metadisk named foo” they go to one place that has the name stored. Not to mention it can be seen that I asked for it…bad bad bad. If I say “see my file on safenet named foo” not only do you not know who created it (as opposed to me having to register my API key with a centralized entity), you don’t know who asked for it. (note, this applies to metadisk specifically, not underlying storj)

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I’m not confusing the two (I said it’s much more private), I’m saying nothing is completely decentralized. Bitcoin has seed servers, most other coins too.

Yes, so it is also interesting to start with a list of identities of all people who contacted any of the seed servers, and then pay attention to their other activities, online as well as offline… Especially early on. For example in 2016 where I live there probably won’t be more than 0.1% of users who will connect to those MaidSafe servers.

Noone is close to being able to boast about security and privacy. Even Tor isn’t.

totally different markets and approaches.

storj is like dropbox, and cloud storage of documents, back ups, image files etc for personal and corporate users. this is a a very specific application niche.

maidsafe is more of a platform. sure you could theoretically build storj with it, but you can also build 1000 other kinds of applications.

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I think it’s great to see more of these projects. We’ll probably see Devs form project A working on project B as well. It’s a small world after all.

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This , is the key and really if we are true to open principles and source / ideas etc. to me we all put these out and lose ownership immediately. The most successful will be those who do lose ownership, but retain vision and push the vision. To do that we won’t care if we use a draper happer or a stanly one, we will need a hammer and pick what suits us at the time.

So protectionism is actually a weakness, I am happy this community see logic and yes argue for some SAFE principles and ideas etc. they are important and hard to understand, but there is also room for easier things at times.

The next trick will be collaborations and API links where possible, but like the clearnet each project will require to analyse API’s to ensure no security leaks etc.
However, the benefits may be quite dramatic, and for sure interesting.

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Popped up somewhere and I figured I’d respond directly from Storj.

This is exactly why you do not want to know who stores your date or who’s data you store

Amen.

I almost joined in on http://blog.storj.io/post/140811990373/metadisk-alpha-release-50000-sjcx-rewards1 and wrote some code against their API until I read it and saw it is hitting an HTTP endpoint at https://api.metadisk.org (ref https://github.com/Storj/metadisk-client) and that the backend implementation uses Mongo to store buckets in a centralized way even if the data isn’t (ref https://github.com/Storj/metadisk-api/blob/master/lib/storage/models/bucket.js). Isn’t this the exact type of centralization we want to avoid?

https://storj.io/faq.html#faq-2-10 for the question of “Will by files be safe from censorship […]?” the answer is “Yes. Your files will be encrypted, copied, and distributed around the world, rendering them immune to censorship […]”. Unless I misunderstand this centralized API, the lack of anonymity provided (no, TLS is not enough) is definitely a point of censorship so the answer is disingenuous at best. I looked elsewhere (granted I may leverage storj itself, but not this metadisk stuff). Anyone please correct me if I’m misinterpreting this.

At first our usage of HTTP might look really strange. One of our key motivators is simplicity. We want any application or user to be able to connect to the Storj network without having to install any software. This means communication over HTTP and REST APIs. Any developer in any language can just plug and play.

This means one really cool thing. Storj runs 100% in the browser. Literally every user on the net can use Storj now by just loading a webpage. We released our API last week, so there is 1 app right now and a dozen other in progress.

I agree. If you dig in a little more you can see we use ECDSA keys(same like Bitcoin) for authentication, and then your standard encryption libs. TLS is just the icing on the already locked safe.

Having an API for our product MetaDisk doesn’t make the network centralized. The product MetaDisk groups files into buckets which can be billed to a user if they want to use the service. MetaDisk and the network only accept encrypted shards of data. As long as the user follows those rules then we can’t possibly know what users are storing.

totally different markets and approaches.

storj is like dropbox, and cloud storage of documents, back ups, image files etc for personal and corporate users. this is a a very specific application niche.

maidsafe is more of a platform. sure you could theoretically build storj with it, but you can also build 1000 other kinds of applications.

Incorrect. Bit of incorrect marketing in the very early stages of the project. We are building a data platform. As I stated above the APIs were released last week. We have one working application, and a dozens or so in progress.

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I put my website on storj and nothing happen. (lol)

This , is the key and really if we are true to open principles and source / ideas etc. to me we all put these out and lose ownership immediately. The most successful will be those who do lose ownership, but retain vision and push the vision. To do that we won’t care if we use a draper happer or a stanly one, we will need a hammer and pick what suits us at the time.

So protectionism is actually a weakness, I am happy this community see logic and yes argue for some SAFE principles and ideas etc. they are important and hard to understand, but there is also room for eaier things at times.

The next trick will be collaborations and API links where possible, but like the clearnet each project will require to analyse API’s to ensure no security leaks etc.
However, the benefits may be quite dramatic, and for sure interesting.

Love to see more collaboration between Storj, Maidsafe, Sia, IPFS, Swarm, etc. There are some things we disagree on technically, but I think there are other things that we all seem to agree on like encrypting everything and maybe content addressable web.

People like to focus on where the projects are different, I’d rather focus on what ideas and principles agree on and set the bar for any decentralized internet solution.

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Does anyone else feel that StorJ and especially Super3 is being a bit disingenuous?

I applaud David for being professional, nice as always and not burning any bridges and whatnot but I just can’t hold my tongue when I see someone trying to ride on someone elses back. StorJ and Super3 has a history of shadyness and broken words. I have seen this discussed several places as of late.

I would give StorJ 10/10 for marketing and 2/10 for their contributing to the space. We all know where this is going, StorJ devs will profit a lot on their tokens (which they hold the vast majority of and I mean a lot like 95%+) for then to ultimately become a Safenet reseller which was the plan all along.

I bet lots of people see this thread tho and think like “maybe I should buy some StorJ tokens”. Which is annoying. I guess in a sense I should perhaps just give props for such an elaborate money grab from Super3. Almost impressive at this point.

Just a random guys opinion.

Give me a break…

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You’re fullashit and bad manners hotshot. Grow some balls. Things dont “pop up” when you follow (with great interest) the forum anonymously. What are you? 14?

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Look, SAFEs GPL licence makes it Linux (and everything else) compatible. Therefore you’ll soon be able to “apt-get install” a SAFE vault on Debian and its derivatives. Most of the Internet, other than leaf nodes, runs on Linux. Linux has taken over because its is open-source and free, and thus invites huge collaboration and usage by the IT industry all the way from hobbyists to IBM.

Does Storj have such a basis for growth?

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Does anyone else feel that StorJ and especially Super3 is being a bit disingenuous?

I applaud David for being professional, nice as always and not burning any bridges and whatnot but I just can’t hold my tongue when I see someone trying to ride on someone elses back. StorJ and Super3 has a history of shadyness and broken words. I have seen this discussed several places as of late.

I would give StorJ 10/10 for marketing and 2/10 for their contributing to the space. We all know where this is going, StorJ devs will profit a lot on their tokens (which they hold the vast majority of and I mean a lot like 95%+) for then to ultimately become a Safenet reseller which was the plan all along.

I bet lots of people see this thread tho and think like “maybe I should buy some StorJ tokens”. Which is annoying. I guess in a sense I should perhaps just give props for such an elaborate money grab from Super3. Almost impressive at this point.

Just a random guys opinion.

Another myth. Only 9% of all safecoins currently exist, only 8% of storjcoins are currently in circulation. That’s like teapot calling the kettle black. We used Counterparty which has no mining, so all possible SJCX were created and then the asset was locked so no more could be created.

We intend to be on the same platform, and not do a token transfer at some point.

You’re fullashit and bad manners hotshot. Grow some balls. Things dont “pop up” when you follow (with great interest) the forum anonymously. What are you? 14?

Bret Russell right? You make the entire Maidsafe and Bitcoin community look bad. Grow up. This isn’t the next dot com bubble you can cash in on.

Look, SAFEs GPL licence makes it Linux (and everything else) compatible. Therefore you’ll soon be able to “apt-get install” a SAFE vault on Debian and its derivatives. Most of the Internet, other than leaf nodes, runs on Linux. Linux has taken over because its is open-source and free, and thus invites huge collaboration and usage by the IT industry all the way from hobbyists to IBM.

Does Storj have such a basis for growth?

Linux runs the web, but it also has a 2% market share. HTTP has 100% market share. I know which bet I would take.

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Ur such a word twister aren’t u. “only 8% in circulation” is misleading and u know it, the truth is that unless something has changed ur sitting on many times what is “in circulation”. Tell me what did u do with the coins that didn’t sell in the IPO? I remember the promise was that they was going to be burned, then when I went by the forum I saw complaints that u kept it with some comment like “We are keeping the coins for now and see what we will do with them later”… #mindblown Has that changed?

Also, I remember seeing this thread where u aired the possibility of having another IPO, to fund development of kinda basic things, in which luckily a few of the other devs randomly dropping in and reacted pleasantly to this news they definitively heard for the first time… So will there be another IPO?

And as if this wasn’t questionable enough already, u are forcing users to buy tokens (several hundred dollars worth?) in order to participate in ur beta… I just find that to be unethical/dodgy as do many others as well obviously. Especially when u hold that many of the existing tokens u know…

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