Storing data for a fix price

Here is what I think understood so far :

  • You gain a certain amount of safecoin for making space available on your computer
  • You can store data on the network for a certain amount of safecoin
  • Data stored are stored forever, and you only pay for it once

If I misunderstood one or more point please tell me

Logically that mean that I pay a fix amount of safecoin to store a file, but everytime a farmer will store a part of this file, he will receive safecoin. At some point the cost spent for storing it will be bigger that the price I paid.

Unless farmer get less and less safecoin from farming.
It implies that safecoin value get smaller and smaller. I am wrong ? Why ?

Actually the farmers are paid for retrieving a chunk of the file to satisfy a request. Not for the storing.

So if a file is never read again then there is no cost to the network.

Popular files will end up being cached which does not result in a farmer serving up a chunk from their vault.

Yes, but the price is dynamic, and changes.

Yes

Farming results in coins being issued at a rate determined by the dynamic calculated farming rate

Storing files causes coins to be recycled and available for the farmers

As the total coin issued increases the farming reward attempts will succeed less and less in a coin being issued. So when the network is new there will be around 10% of the coins issued and only 90% of farming reward attempts will result in a coin. When the coin issue is at 50% of total coins (2^32) then only 50% of farming reward attempts will result in a coin issuance.

The reason that storage forever will work is that disk storage is increasing each year and costs less to supply to the network. Also as experience shows the harder it is to get a coin the higher in price it typically gets.

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Thank you for clarifying it all

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In other words, @Jimmy_HUGUET if you have a tiny capacity and/or are unlucky, you may get 0 SAFE for your trouble, but in all likelihood your “hits” will about equal the network average and you’ll earn some SAFE coins.

Isn’t it a problem that you could get nothing for making some space of your computer available ?

I mean, let’s say a basic user just want to use the network and so provide a bit of spare space to pay for the cost of using the network. It may not be able to use the network anymore because he was unlucky ?

Does that mean as well that, when you realised that you are not making any coin, the best idea is to turn off your node to turn it back on again and hope to get a better files to store on your node

  • Say the network “hit” rate is 1% per month, and 1 “hit” equals 1 request for 1MB sized data set from a storage device. Now, if the network has 1 PB of usable space, that means 10 TB will be read from the network during this month. If you have just 5 MB of space, you may very well turn out to be unlucky and get nothing this month. But you can also get 2 hits in the next. With a larger farming area (say 100 GB), it’s very likely you’d get between 850 and 1150 hits.
  • The idea about going offlinine has been discussed in many topics, so briefly, it’s a game of chance. The behavior is discouraged by the network in the sense that you have to have some track record of uptime before you get any requests, so in the long term it’s best to stay online (for how long, we don’t know as the s/w and exact details aren’t finalized yet). Sure, if you’re very lucky you can score 3 chunks from a very popular movie, but you can also recycle your space 10 times per month and still not get any hits because of your online history is too short.

Don’t forget that all data has multiple copies, so it is expected that a well behaving vault should have several times larger capacity than what you make in return, simply to account for this replication overhead.

This has changed when non-persistent vaults became the preferred option. The change has been discussed for some months now.

Its losing rep for not behaving or being way too slow.

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Do data chunks get shuffled around to different vaults even when a vault is up for a while? I think this would incentivise you to always keep things going strong as you never know when a popular piece of data might be shuffled into your vault…

I think I had that setting - SHUFFLE - on my Sony Discman.

It doesn’t seem logical to think that you’ll get better blocks. You always tend to have “average” blocks.
Yes, you may get lucky every now and then, but because SHUFFLE=ON, you’ll also get the crappiest blocks ever.

It would work for you if you could watch your stats and turn off SHUFFLE (say, if you hit the biG pr0n hIT jAcKP0t), but there’s no reason to think that someone else before you wouldn’t do the same before their popular blocks get shuffled away. I think vault recycling is the only way right now; a big downside and discouragement is that it takes a while to get the vault filled up and if you give it some time (say 2-3 weeks) you can’t recycle it more than a dozen times a year.
That doesn’t seem like a decent number of “lucky draws”.

@neo says “for not behaving”, but IMO being offline 35% of the time is not behaving. I wonder how this standard will be set.

The longer you are on then the more changes you have to serve data. You also don’t have to have your vault filled so often.

So there is definitely advantages to leaving your vault on for extended periods.

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Are vaults run as files at a specific location on your computer or are they specific to your OS? That is if I log into SAFE via Linux and make vault Alice and then need to restart my computer will I need to make and maintain vault Bob for Windows? Or can I just configure the SAFE client on Windows to use vault Alice again and take negligible reputation loss for the few minutes it took to restart my computer?

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I’m pretty sure you could share vaults across OS’s like that, in theory, but it needs trying to be sure.

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The fact that you get less safecoin from farming as the network grows larger and your percentage of provided disk space grows smaller, is actually going to drive the price higher as the network grows, the less coins there are, the more they’re worth.

Also as the network grows there will be more apps out and more safecoin circulating. You’ll be able to earn safecoin in other ways besides farming.