So Maidsafe has to be out before the UK IP Bill or move to Timbuktu

Hi All, This IP Bill is a serious bit of legislation, Page 71 of the draft doc describes the concerns picked up by Snowden. When it comes in and Maid is not released then Maid team could be in big trouble, need to get some offices elsewhere and shut down in the UK totally before Jan 2017 when the bill becomes law. Maid team / David must have had some sort of interaction with someone over this already…

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/557862/IP_Bill_-_Draft_CD_code_of_practice.pdf

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Wish I could live on a different planet. This whole place is getting too creepy and invasive, though likely the creeps would just follow. Any comments on this bill and its implications to launch @dirvine @nicklambert ?

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Yeah, and if none follow, some that go along will have to get at least a bit creepy just to keep things interesting. :wink:

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That’s the scariest part, there’s nothing inhabitable at all in any direction in space :stuck_out_tongue:

Very scary for the young people to hear about this, especially the global warming stances of the new Prez… EDIT: T. I. L. HE’S DRILLING FOR OIL IN THE WORST PLACE POSSIBLE FOR GLOBAL WARMING: THE ARCTIC CIRCLE, THAT’S WHY PUTIN LIKES HIM, BECAUSE HE HAS THE CRONIES IN EXXON MOBILE TO GET THE DEEP OIL THERE… PUTIN + TRUMP + EXXON MOBILE = CERTAIN MAJOR HEAT CLIMATE FOR ALL YOUNG PEOPLE (AGE <30) UN-FUN FACTS

Where do you go when your planet heats up to crazy levels?? SAFE / nanobots / BioCarbon tree planting drones (openseed) etc we all need to work on solutions to live

Back on topic though, I hope this bill won’t affect MaidSafe. At least launch should be before that, and once launch happens and it’s out there, not much the UK can do at all

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I’m not sure it applies. This bill is talking about “communication service provider,” which Maidsafe isn’t: it will be in no possession or control of infrastructure or anything required to operate the service; the service is operated by all of its users, and only by its users – that’s why it’s so revolutionary.

I’m not sure though whether this part in 2.18 is supposed to address just that: “any telecommunication system (whether or not one provided by the person providing the service),” though it would still hold that Maidsafe is not providing any service.

Basically, though the ones who drafted up this abomination tried to go as broad as they could, it seems the SAFE network is so different from everything else that it isn’t covered. Also, we can argue that it’s technically impossible to be covered: it’s designed to withstand, among others, exactly these kinds of attempts :smirk_cat:

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Hopefully science will help us but I think if we all vote with our dollars and stick to our values we can help make a positive impact. My family and I all recently went vegan (besides duck eggs we occasionally have from our very spoiled ducks), we did this for many reasons but one of those reasons is because of the impacts on the environment. I would encourage everyone to look into how big of an impact animal agriculture has on our planet in almost every way. Hoping things shake out for us Will :disappointed_relieved: at least we have the safe network to look forward to!!! And a little creepy is good I suppose @fergish haha

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Maybe. The wording is pretty vague, and deliberately so. This has been one of the beefs of lawyers and privacy campaigners all along. It allows plenty of room for interpretation by the authorities. As Graham Cluley points out:

One concern with this part of the draft Bill is that there is no tight definition of a CSP. It obviously includes ISPs, but does it extend to VPN providers, or to Skype, Facebook, messaging apps and email services, all of which provide communications services?

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Maybe this post in a related topic might give an insight concerning putting in backdoors.

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Still, SAFE will have no provider, so who will be targeted by this law? Maidsafe, the company, is just a bunch of peeps working on an open source project; they don’t own or control any of the infrastructure, i.e. our computers.

It would be interesting to see what people say about more well known, but similar, things, for example bittorrent when it’s used with DHT but without trackers. That may give us an idea about how this law would be interpreted for SAFE as well.

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The issue here is that MaidSafe the company does not keep any data, So the authorities can request everything that MaidSafe has on its “customers”, but without any data kept or any customers, what would MaidSafe give them. An empty manilla folder.

Asking for back doors to be built in will remain as being asked as David said its like putting wheels on a horse. Asking for retained data is useless as the running system has no servers kept by MaidSafe and no data logs to retain.

#####Obviously there is the bootstrap servers (initially), but they can be kept by any “branch” of MaidSafe outside of the UK, or Australia, or any other country with mandatory retention laws that cover such situations. Even in Australia at the moment our intrusive data retention laws would exclude such a company as MaidSafe, and it seems that our laws and the UK were birthed from the same people.

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Excellent points @neo

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[quote=“neo, post:8, topic:11952”]
So it would mean a complete rewrite and redesign of the network itself and specially the authentication mechanism.
[/quote] Which has not been happening of late?

Yes I know we are still in dev and big rewrites are needed.

I also couldn’t find any “Canary Watch” page on Maid websites so how do we know the team has not been “got at” already? I don’t know much about how these orgs work but I totally believe Maid will work at some point so perhaps some of these orgs also believe that and have had a word already, not that I think a Canary would really help against these orgs. I know the code is open source for public review but you only need one bug in one line of code that only one genius in a million or 100 million people could find to split the whole thing open for an org of 1000’s of people.

This idea is a serious ******** idea, it could deliver things that we haven’t thought of yet and I’m 100% sure the government know about it and have it under tight review, why would they not? if some idea is promising to deliver a network to enable the distribution of terrorist material that is unstoppable and is halfway proven? there are not many ideas like this and if not only under tight review but at the top of the ********* review list.

So the code reviewers we need cannot be western based at the first release to ensure total trust. This IP bill kills all trust in western security firms.

hmm, typing this after a few drinks tonight Ive just had an idea for a business.

Cheers All
Al

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What! the “feel good” mechanism? If the company can do a canary watch, so can the authorities issue court orders for the company to keep the canary watch as if nothing happened. Happened before and will again.

There is no protection than external (to the UK) code watches and that really applies for any project.
EDIT: and perhaps a whistle blower

And does anyone really think that MaidSafe is even on the uK radar at the moment. If it is then they have an army keeping an eye on the thousands of projects that might one day become something to deal with. I find it highly unlikely that a small project such as SAFE which is at the very early stages of any sort of implementation (still theory in the eyes of most) would be of any concern to such legislation.

And again a backdoor would be a lot more than a one liner considering the core design is anti such a thing as a back door. Web sites and encrypted storage (dropbox etc) is easy to build in back doors, but apart from the self encryption module any back door is really like wheels on a horse. A redesign of the beast.

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@neo as I said, the government can be really creative:

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… the government can be really creative

If not op·pres·sive (adjective):

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I am afraid the wording is not always vague in the draft:

2.4 The Act makes clear that any service which consists in, or includes, facilitating the creation, management or storage of communications transmitted, or that may be transmitted, by means of a telecommunications system is included within the meaning of ‘telecommunications service’. Internet based services such as webbased email, messaging applications and cloud-based services are, therefore, covered by this definition.

That may not concern vaults themselves because they implement a low-level protocol, but clearly that concerns apps. The only way to make the Act non-enforceable for apps, is to build them decentralized and open sourced.

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Unfortunately then that, surprise surprise, Mars One is delayed: http://www.natureworldnews.com/articles/33794/20161211/nasa-mars-one-prepares-mission.htm.

But on topic: I’m convinced that whatever problem this Bill could give Maidsafe, it will be countered appropriately.

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What I’m wondering is could this end up in the boycotting of all UK based proprietary closed source software, indeed any software that COULD be backdoored? In short if it’s not maidsafe level secure it isn’t secure and therefore ends up losing developers profits. Of course some software doesn’t require such levels of security like games and such but long term one has to wonder if this might raise the standard a bit.

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CryptoValley in Zug would be the most recommended place I think. They would be in (mostly) good company there.

Having listened to a lot of Trump talk I hear a guy who is setting us up to fix things right. Not to ruin the planet. He has got to get there first. Look at the hoops on fire and head-on trains raging at him. So yep. A lot of work ahead for everyone. Anyone who still counts on one head honcho to take charge is going off the cliff with those who are not ready to be stewards of change. Who would be if you are you going with Maidsafe? The best he can do is pull us out of that rabbit hole we were so far down and give kids something to work with. Doesn’t look to be the kids from the safe-spaces generation though. It will be their children who hate them.

I can take time to post this note, being relieved to read the UK IP Bill doesn’t know how to backdoor Maidsafe. [Tangent: I don’t know what UKIP means as a political party but it is funny to see its letters divided to mean this]

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