Should maidsafe start giving timescales?


#82


#83

But that’s always been the case! It’s always around the corner! I bet it felt just as close when
Nick Lambert said “We are working toward an estimated public launch at the end of 2014.”
https://www.ccn.com/maidsafes-nick-lambert-talks-redesigned-fully-encrypted-internet/
How’s that supposed to make me feel some four years later?


#84

They never added those amounts of staff to their team before and they didn’t supply bindings for this many languages + have a live network now running for half a year or so =O

So there actually is a big difference imo now because it’s not only that it’s looking like most problems have a solution now but there actually are solved problems :slight_smile:

The project is mature enough in its foundations that it makes sense to work on a couple of fronts at the same time now and achieve additional goals - and at the same time the team has grown well enough that they are able to regroup to tackle data chains + gossip, work on the bindings and on front end stuff while at the same time helping with community meet ups and taking care of additional staff

I do see a big difference from what I ‘felt like being close’ to what it’s now and seeing that as soon as the last critical parts of the puzzle are in place this project now has the capacity to create awesome stuff (not like safe wouldn’t be…)


#85

4 years older :smiley:

Seriously it looked like we raised a ton of cash, enough for us, the foundation and the other 1/3 for international dev pods. We barely got enough for the company alone to survive and try our best with a small team to get to the line. We did push it though, then we got a break and have grown the team and capability as well.

So we could have won the race sprinting, but with no arms and one leg it was more difficult, who would have guessed mastercoin debacle and coupled with bitcoin crash could have hindered us a bit. In the end it did, as well as the task being much larger than we first anticipated in terms of complexity and also size of offering. In the end tho, we work hard, smart and to everyone limits, there is little else we can do except take the time out and recruit more help while moving forward and that i s exactly what has been happening. All open and transparent.

We know ourselves as MaidSafe that no amount of crying, shouting, moaning or finger pointing gets us to launch any quicker, its all about grit and ability.

So a much different company from 2014 in many ways.


#86

The community doesn’t owe you anything. They made a gamble with their cash by participating in the crowdsale. Having accepted that cash, the company (not the community!) is expected to deliver.


#87

Working together means collaborating and respecting. Your comments ignore both. No person is anyone’s master. Many folk gamble and buy coins like lottery tickets, many equity investors gamble on an outcome etc. Many investors and community members, who either have or do not have maidsafecoins work together. Nobody owes anyone anything and maidsafe have staff who can work or leave, community members have a choice to support or hinder or indeed do nothing.

Delivering is of course expected and is done every single day, full launch is expected by us all, that includes the people working and choosing to work for X pay to make it happen.

It is as simple as that, work towards a goal or don’t, but never stand by and demand as that is insane. A strong community includes everyone, as soon as it excludes groups of people or sections of the community as different or subservient then I am out of there along with many others I imagine.

This is a project for the world, anyone can finish it if they try hard enough, we are set up to achieve that and I feel we are proving that weekly.

So the community owe us nothing and we ask nothing from them, however mutual respect and working together as one unit makes it all so much simpler. Us and them never works for me.


#88

you obviously did :open_mouth: i can see that

how about selling at a win before this project doesn’t deliver and you loose it all?


#89

I didn’t. I bought later.

I don’t want to. Just like you (I assume) and most community members, I support the project and I want it to succeed.


#90

oh - cool :slight_smile: then how about some positivity?

there has been great progress and trying to add pressure to the team won’t help to get to our common goal faster =) they already are working fast and delivering excellent work all the time again and again (and they don’t give up … though they must feel even more lik sisyphos than anybody else… rewrites, concept changes, additional requirements …)

i’m glad you’re in for the greater good =) if you do have things where you would like to propose improvements then i ask you to not hesitate =) because improvements are always good (by definition :smiley: ) but if you - like the rest of us - see the progress that is happening and the hard work that is going into creating our beloved safe network … and still want to just push maidsafe to work harder … then i really don’t like your attitude :wink:


#92

:open_mouth: am i dreaming this or is there panic building up that MAID might rise too fast here and some people really need to try and create distracton and uncertainty here …? (sorry i know this is trading related talk - but some other comments here seem to be too to me … so … )


#93

For goodness sake… The likes of Irvine and co could make much bigger money in far easier ways than taking the course they are pursuing. Their talent and tenacity are rare and we are extremely lucky to have them working towards such admiral goals.

If you really are cynical enough to believe they are in it for the money you are both deluded and of no help to the community. It is probably time you moved on.


#94

the complete opposite of what we are doing.

There fixed that for ye :wink:


#95

Hey dude, we are a little bit of disappointed but that is not the way to accuse someone/something without any evidence. IMHO none of the community members has the same opinion as you.

Seriously how does David keep his patience, if I was in his shoes I would have said f**k this and moved on.


#96

sorry deleting my post, my bad …


#97


#98

I think it’s definitely wrong to apply more preassure on the team. Being a product manager myself I know firsthand how hard and painful it sometimes can be to manage limited resources and push the team to the limit.

Obviosly I can only interpret this from the outside but I’ll just give it a shot and try to analyze a concrete example in the hope of contributing some productive feedback.

Let’s try to take an example. Most of the people here know by now, that DC-1 is a huge thing; the main roadblocker for Alpha 3 you could say. I have the feeling, some of the above frustration came from the excitement about detailed milestones (and connected tasks) regarding DataChains (part 1).

I really love the fact, that MaidSafe is publishing their JIRA. However, I sometimes get the feeling, that it’s sometimes not used for every task or that there is a another “behind the scenes” task system. For instance, last week or so I asked why the number of ticked-off JIRA tasks hasn’t changed since 3 weeks or so. @dirvine told me, that they changed plans for the routing team and now experiment with the so called “gossip” protocol.

For me that’s absolutely cool and as a developer I can also see the benefits from such an experiment. However, when I search JIRA again today I see that the DC-1 DONE count is still unchanged for 4 weeks now and that there also isn’t a single task regarding “gossip”: https://maidsafe.atlassian.net/issues/?jql=text%20~%20"gossip"

Please, if there is a regarding task, just with a different name, forgive me. :wink: If not, I would be really interested in how JIRA is currently being used or how task management / prioritization is currently done.

From an outside perspective I would suggest to put everything which has been decided internally on JIRA and mark it correctly (which module, who works on it, etc.). If gossip is relevant for DC-1 then tag it like that. If it’s not relevant and just an (important) “side project” that’s also fine. Then I would mention in the weekly update, that work on DC-1 tasks is currently postponed as long as gossip tasks are finished.

Again, for me it’s compeletely understandable, that requirements/tasks change (especially in such a complex project). But then the plan (JIRA, milestones, tasks, etc.) need to be updated too and each major change schould be communicated.

In the above example then everyone could see that new tasks appeared (“gossip integration”) and can track the progress and understands how many resources are blocked due to this change. I think this could take out a lot of frustration potential.

Would be cool to hear some thoughts from you about this or if I’m missing something.


#99

Good point, sometimes though we just do need to try some things and quickly. There is an issue we are working round right now for instance and for various non technical reasons we need to do it off github. Its a test of something that could help us a lot. We will of course say much more as we usually do, but you are correct. There are some libs, routing a lot, that look to go quiet when we try some things out, occasionally in parallel (LEAN) ways. Swarm is such an issue as well as intra section ordering of consensus events, kinda ordering consensus of group consensus events. Its not easy to explain and we have a few folk on that, but it is an example of where we have a large number of hangouts, test a lot of ideas and have a lot of engineers digging deeply for the best answers.

It happens in other libs as well, even with things like SOLID integrations or some simulations (i.e. a gossip sim was done about 6 months before we looked at push/pull gossip to help swarm).

It should not and we really hope will become very rare in the future, but sometimes its required to just huddle together and brainstorm like mad. So routing just now (well public-ally) you will see what looks like a pause, then perhaps there will be a mega commit, all going well, or we continue with a slightly slower thing with all the conditions in routing. We hope we can do better there, but as I say it’s sometimes just not every task that is so public until we work stuff out. We never though hide stuff that works :slight_smile:


#100

Thank you to both you and Nick for caring enough to take the time out for people when they have doubts, your humanity is the reason you guys are the right people for this job.

Sending you guys a virtual badger (kinda appropriate given this thread I reckon).

image


#101

It was pretty funny and I sense more will be coming.

That’s why we should start a “Weekly snap thread” for “I-trust-nobody-any-more’s!”, “what’s-been-taking-them-so-long’s?!” and “I’ve-got-money-in-this-you-know’s?”

For therapeutic purposes. It could happen to any one of us at any moment. “I-lost-all-my-hopes-in-this-project’s!” and “Substratum-is-so-far-ahead’s” would land there pretty often too. Same about “More-pressure-would-do-them-good-and-they-need-a-good-ole-kick-in-the-butt’s!”

The thing is, when it gets done, it will be hilarious to look back and read through these posts :smiley:


#102

I just created a poll where we can vote when we think beta will be released :slightly_smiling_face:
https://safenetforum.org/t/poll-when-will-beta-be-released/22405

Just to check how optimistic/pessimistic everybody is :wink: