Seriously, even paying $1 MILLION USD to get listed on big exchanges is WELL WORTH the money!

[foreverjoyful]

@Dimitar

for small investors it is good that the marketing of the project remains in the background. I personally prefer to be able to accumulate safecoin for another 1-2 years at prices below $ 10…

Altho keep in mind, in my argument, I’m talking only partly from that perspective, more so about from an adoption/marketing/community and developer growing perspective, people need to know this NOW, project has an alpha out and has been out for AGES, it doesn’t deserve the attention it has right now(which is basically no attention) it’s either catch up, or be left out, with the speed in which this space of decentralised technologies is evolving. Google can develop something similar to the safenetwork within a year if they tried, and it would be great for me to be honest, even though I may lose money, because i finally can have something similar to the safenetwork which I can use, and I can probably start making money by farming on that network(but Google probably won’t do so, but that doesn’t mean other people won’t)

But either way, this is the only community I know that’s doing this type of thing with this philosophy of bringing benefit to mankind regardless whether they would make money or not, a philosophy which I really resonate with and admire, as David humbly stated in his introduction in the DevCon(otherwise, trust me, I’d definitely be spending my time elsewhere right now). So going back and concentrating on this community and project – if it were to be well known, it’s crucial that we need exposure now so we have the first movers advantage, as this would help significantly with adoption later on, otherwise, investors of this network would be left out as similar projects come along, I’ll be fine because as soon as I discover another project doing similar things with similar philosophy, i’d most likely be trying to help that community because, just trying to suggest some really good marketing ideas, that most people who do great marketing would know to be helpful, has been nothing but more than frustrating so far…

[piluso]

@foreverjoyful

Perfect example of someone who has no idea what they’re talking about. What you’re saying is getting developer interest isn’t a priority. Getting seriously rich investors to back the project isn’t a priority(as a lot of crypto funds are starting to buy the top 10 cryptos, getting it to the top 10 would bring unimaginable amount of press, and way more backers of the project, simply as a result of people knowing it), getting more traffic to the project isn’t a priority. Getting more developers to help the project isn’t a priority, getting a lot of developer funding so you can develop the project for much longer and better isn’t a priority, and making an easy $5 Million while increasing much more long term traffic and attention to the project is laughable, why the hell would the team do that? Not a priority at all. So stupid of them to do that(obviously, I’m being sarcastic).

Oh the irony, the secondary market flew over your head. And I am the one who doesn’t know what I am talking about, haha.

Everything you say is irrelevant.
You are putting the cart before the horse.

If they were launching a second ICO, it would be relevant.
Not at this stage, and not now.

[foreverjoyful]

@piluso

Oh the irony, the secondary market flew over your head. And I am the one who doesn’t know what I am talking about, haha

Sorry, I know i might have been a bit harsh taking what you say as an example, but that was a good example to point out to outline my point and address an invalid counter argument. Though what are you saying about secondary market? I don’t understand.

And why everything i say is irrelevant? I don’t understand why you think what I outlined isn’t a priority, if you still don’t, i don’t know what to say, I guess I’ll just leave it to the team and community, because the project will really progress as far as those two allow it to go. I won’t waste anymore time ‘debating’ this issue. It’s really just stating the obvious and replying to people defending the indefensible, waste of time for everyone.

[riddim]

@foreverjoyful

I guess I’ll just leave it to the team and community

You are part of the community too =) and I’m glad you are

But yes this discussion is a huge sink for time and energy and as long as you don’t seriously propose a community funded listing I don’t see what exactly is being discussed here (your proposal to maidsafe is of course not something anybody can seriously consider - but you’ll know that - at least I hope so)

What I personally really would appreciate though: if you would not try and tell others they don’t get it… Because here are a lot of smart people and many of them simply don’t agree those things you consider utmost important are that important long term …

[foreverjoyful]

@riddim

you don’t seriously propose a community funded listing I don’t see what exactly is being discussed here

I’m trying to persuade the team, as well as trying to persuade the community to persuade the team, to do it… did you not realise this?

@riddim

your proposal to maidsafe is of course not something anybody can seriously consider - but you’ll know that

Sorry, don’t see why not, otherwise I wouldn’t have proposed. I know they might not accept it, but anyway, at least i can say i tried.

@riddim

What I personally really would appreciate though: if you would not try and tell others they don’t get it… Because here are a lot of smart people and many of them simply don’t agree those things you consider utmost important are that important long term …

Ok, well, the thing is… i actually really want to, but I can only do that when i see good arguments against my arguments, which i have not seen so far, quite frankly… so what else am i to say?

[riddim]

@foreverjoyful

I’m trying to persuade the team, as well as trying to persuade the community to persuade the team

The team knows crypto for quite a while now - and I’m sure they are aware of all the points you mentioned - they never promised to make everyone rich by listing the temporary coin maid on large exchanges…
… The crowd funding promise was to develop the safe network - and that is exactly what they always did and what they are doing now - and nobody should tell them how they ‘must’ invest the money they got for development (!)

@foreverjoyful

Sorry, don’t see why not

Okay - I’ll try to make this the last time I allow someone to consume my valuable time without the chance of something good being a result of it

Nobody doubts that what you proposed would have a short term very profitable effect (even maidsafe said it themselves that they see the short term benefits of it i think) so yes you would for sure benefit from this stunt - but 1. How would you account for the rise in value by development in the same period of time? 2. How do you account for the additional costs that come with supporting the erc20 token too? 3. Who pais if something goes wrong with conversion maid/erc20 or erc20/Safecoin?.. You are proposing something where you would win for sure but there would be introduced a lot of additional risk for maidsafe/the community long term…

@foreverjoyful

only do that when i see good arguments against my arguments

See… I don’t see ‘good arguments’ on your side… To me there are simply more important things to invest the money in…

[VaCrunch]

Dilemma:

1. Spend $200K USD to get a temporary token listed on large exchange at the outside chance that it could spur investment and interest in the project, or

2. Spend the $200K USD on 3 to 4 years’ worth of salaries for development personnel to speed project through Beta into launch of the real coin

I don’t see this as a difficult administrative decision.

[foreverjoyful]

@riddim

The team knows crypto for quite a while now - and I’m sure they are aware of all the points you mentioned

The team being around for a while doesn’t equate to them knowing how to do things the best way. You have too much faith in the team, I take a more objective view and judge them by facts and by actions. If something has a 99% chance of doing something good and 1% chance of well, not hurting the project as much anyway, if they don’t choose to implement this thing, whatever it is, then sorry, they should be criticised regardless of if they’re 100 years old or 1 week old.

@riddim

The crowd funding promise was to develop the safe network - and that is exactly what they always did and what they are doing now

Well, then why is there a marketing team at all? Obviously that argument is debunked the first second it appears…

@riddim

and nobody should tell them how they ‘must’ invest the money they got for development (!)

In the DevCon they claim the community is the team essentially, so that’s not even an argument… Who is they? They is us.

@riddim

1. How would you account for the rise in value by development in the same period of time?

What do you think the 50% is for? Also i said I don’t even need it if they do the rest.

@riddim

2. How do you account for the additional costs that come with supporting the erc20 token too?

There won’t be any, I’ll make sure the whole process is cost neutral for the team. And even specifics of the proposals are not clear, it can be asked and negotiated upon and not dismissed outright.

@riddim

3. Who pais if something goes wrong with conversion maid/erc20 or erc20/Safecoin?..

Like what exactly… there can’t be anything wrong. Period. The team is in full control of the tokens, they can distribute and re-distribute the way they see fit. Plus, again, can be added to the specifics who’ll be responsible for what. Also in the DevCon they mentioned ERC-20 transition themselves, who pays if that goes wrong?

@riddim

You are proposing something where you would win for sure but there would be introduced a lot of additional risk for maidsafe/the community long term…

No, I would never do that. If i don’t think it’ll benefit everyone, but benefits just me and harms everyone else, I would not make such a proposal.

@riddim

See… I don’t see ‘good arguments’ on your side… To me there are simply more important things to invest the money in…

No, there’s no drawback actually, the team holds the tokens, so the investment isn’t an investment at all, which is why the confusion everyone is thinking. You’re not spending $200k, instead, you’re picking up millions of dollars, from the investors in the popular exchanges, for free. Net “cost”(really should be called benefit) is -$5,000,000+, so yep, there are definitely more important things, and you’ll get free money to invest them in. Also you’ll get unbelievable amount of new traffic, developers, attention, media, press, all of which you’ll eventually have to invest in. $200k is a small amount at the moment, don’t be surprised if they soon charged $500k for it.

@VaCrunch

Dilemma:

Well, again, there’s no dilemma Because it’s not a cost. Long term benefits which you didn’t outline, such as getting more traffic and attention, more developers and investors, and making the “cost” back + $5 million+ profit if monetised right, right after listing.

Also fact correction, $200k is 2-3 months of development cost, this is said by one of the members during DevCon, they have weighed 2-3 months of development cost against a listing for a big exchange. Needless to say, I was in utter disbelief.

Actually, I’m quite serious regarding my proposals, I’d pay to get it listed on at least 3 big exchanges, if the team can do what I outlined. I’m sure @whiteoutmashups would also know how important they are.

[VaCrunch]

@foreverjoyful

Also fact correction, $200k is 2-3 months of development cost, this is said by one of the members during DevCon, they have weight 2-3 months of development cost against a listing for a big exchange. Needless to say, I was in utter disbelief.

Probably total salaries for the entire development team. My example was salary for one developer.

[dirvine]

@foreverjoyful

Also fact correction, $200k is 2-3 months of development cost, this is said by one of the members during DevCon, they have weighed 2-3 months of development cost against a listing for a big exchange. Needless to say, I was in utter disbelief.

Correct, however, it’s not 200K to get listed it is that plus a million dollars a month in liquidity (coins). Then there are no wages, a diluted coin and a huge bunch of rightly angry token holders. Of course no project, no network. I feel that cost is way to high. We discussed an interesting approach, us MS Asia and the community promote a decentralized exchange, all of us put some tokens there for sale and promote the hell out of it as a huge community.

We have been around and we may not know everything, but we have a survival instinct that is probably better honed than most, I would trust we have an inkling of business acumen

[Nigel]

Bisq is quite nice and it’s getting a lot of attention. Let’s get $maid on Bisq ya’ll!

[thc]

Since all crypto has gone up, it would be difficult to correlate that the Binance coins would not have gone up if they had not been on Binance. I think his experimental method of just looking at how much coins on Binance have gone up is pretty flawed.

[dirvine]

@Nigel

Bisq is quite nice and it’s getting a lot of attention. Let’s get $maid on Bisq ya’ll!

MaidSafe Engineer was saying just that on the Friday meetup.

[SalvorinFex]

@foreverjoyful

Immediate Rebrand. To a different name not including “MAID” at all. Safenetwork isn’t as great either TBH… actual name can be voted on, EON(extra-ordinary network) seems cool.

How could this possible be cost neutral? Just some examples: The website that they are working on now would need to be re-branded, already wasting more time that’s already been spent, domain name change. Redoing all the videos on Youtube, more wasted time and resources. Changing the community Wiki, this site, the dev forum site. Advertising the Name Change, and republishing the Medium Blog posts, the Reddit page, all the Slack/IRC/Riot/Discord/Telegram chat channels, more wasted time. Letterhead, envelopes, business cards, notary, Business License, DBA, etc. other business related changes [which in turn wastes LOTS of paper and precious trees] Republishing all whitepapers and other release related info so the name change is thorough and tries to avoid future problems with recognition.
Probably missing some items here, but I am not even fully awake yet
It isn’t just a simple change of a few things, and would take resources away form more important tasks.

[Sotros25]

@thc

Since all crypto has gone up, it would be difficult to correlate that the Binance coins would not have gone up if they had not been on Binance.

It is true that there is a Binance-Listing Bias with a strong gravitational pull. There are a couple top 50 by market cap coins that aren’t listed on Binance (e.g., SIA and Golem), but these are few and far in between. Regardless, “there’s more than one way to skin a cat” (which is a horrific but true idiom). I think multiple partnerships with exchanges that provide greater exposure to high potential markets (e.g., Korea, Japan, etc.) could sum to a similar effect as a listing on one or two of the most high volume exchanges.

[Mendrit]

Thing is that we definitely need some exchange we can promote and does not have any problems.
Requirements:

1. Worldwide registration

2. No delay with registration

3. Secure and trustful

4. Low fees

5. Fast and easy trading

Any exchange meets this requirements is worth to get there.

[hamarana]

As I mentioned on another article, extorsion does happen! A major axchange invited a coin to join them, paying 500 thousand dollars, later the blocked up all the wallets to that coin and charged them 7 million dollars if they wanted their clients´ money released otherwise they would delist their coin … !

[VaCrunch]

#6 I would say is “Accepts fiat.” The aim should be to make the purchase of the coin as easy as possible for newbies, to extend the reach of the current investment population. Newbies are primarily purchasers, which is a good thing.

[nevel]

I think getting listed on a modern growing exchange like Bibox will be great already. And if this is possible for a low price, it’s the way to go for now. This already will give an impulse, because the current situation is quite dramatic.

[SalvorinFex]

Not to mention the weekly Exit Scams I read about.
They happen quite often and there are many crapcoins out there that paying for these listings just to rob there coin holders. Not saying that ours is one of them, but just that getting listed isn’t the, “be all end all” of coin theory.