Seriously, even paying $1 MILLION USD to get listed on big exchanges is WELL WORTH the money!

Yes, but that would be insider trading, I guess. And even though it is “business as usual” in cryptoland, it might be good idea to steer away from that kind of stunts.


I’m not sure, but I think it is insider trading only if you actually do trade to make those short term gains. But I have to admit that I don’t really know how this goes.

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Personally, I think it boils down to the motivation behind the project.

My thought is that if you came to buy MAID in order to get a relatively quick buck then you missed the motivation behind the project. Its not about profits but about providing a network to the world in order to free them from the clutches of the big companies fighting for control of the internet and the users.

The dev team are aware of the need for exchanges but are painfully aware of the costs and the delays paying big money for a quick pump-n-dump on a big exchange. Yes the price would jump with the exposure but I suspect (know from experience) it is rather short lived in effect when compared to listing on multiple exchanges that are less exploitative.

I realise that @foreverjoyful you are after the greatest returns and profits for the farmers and coin holders, but this will be at the expense of the less fortunate (late or poor) and shift the wealth from the lesser to the more fortunate. But that is not what motivates this project, it is to have real costs and to enable the poor and less fortunate, giving opportunities to everyone alike. So if you are here for maximum profits then you may become very disappointed many times over.


Getting listed clearly is not a priority, resources are better spent at this stage on getting the SafeNetwork live rather than on enabling a secondary market which is marginally beneficial to the project itself.

If the SafeNetwork is a success, all these exchanges will be listing it for their own benefit without a single fee.


Agree that Safecoin (not maidsafe coins) should be listed in more exchanges so that more people can be helped with their data privacy. Before that can happen, a solid working product is needed. Else the hype could be short lived and detrimental to the overall network brand. I’d rather have the product delivered as quickly as possible…then list the coins to as many exchanges as possible. Imagine we are asking folks to put their hard earned money into a promise that we have no idea when will be delivered.


Wow. What a thread. I like the debate.

Now let me share my view and i do not want to offend anyone so let me apologise in advance if what i say offends anyone.

I believe MS is about the most ambitious project that there is in the crypto world. I dream of the day when people ask me where was u when Safenet went life and i will proudly say i was with the team when they were working on Alpha 2. But i will be clear i was only a cheerleader and never developed anything beneficial for the project directly. All i did (past tense) was buy into the project and get people to believe in it.

Now - after all that. I think the team is a great team. I think their ambitions are great. I am convinced they will not let this community down. Since this is about the best team in the crypto world they should be in the bestest of exchanges so the world can know of them. This is like a football team that is in the premier league. Any other league is simply not good enough. In fact they should be top three in the league.

So now to @dirvine @nicklambert @dugcampbell @SarahPentland @frabrunelle all the whole team lets get a great product and get us into the premier league.

A humble community members simplest request. :pray::sweat_smile::innocent:


Paying the 200k to get listed on a exchange for the expectation for MAID to increase in value, is entirely missing the point of why we as a community should pay to be listed.

Its actually about, showing the world that we believe as a community we will deliver a world changing platform. By listing on much larger exchanges, we gain more more attention. The attention is the exact reason we should be happy to pay 200k. Why?

Skilled enthusiastic developers are not cheap, but getting attention is another way to attract these kinds of people. We as a community gain more ‘Testers’ of the platform, more people to create ‘Apps’ which will in turn also attract more developers. The front end APIs of the safe network are what these people need to start developing. We already have that, we should market them as ready for development and help in building the safe network eco system. Stop focussing on the ‘back end isn’t done yet’. Without apps the backend is worthless anyway, and tiny part of this great idea.

200k to start building this eco system, is worth more than ‘4 months of backend development’ because it pays for an infinite amount of ‘frontend development’. So in my opinion its totally worth it.


Then I would rather invest 200K as a prize in the App competition. To actually make sure the developers come and develop.

Because your assumption of being listed on Binance => coder debauchery on Alpha 2 sounds like a chimera.

Binance is just an exchange. Albeit a big (and slow) one.


The huge problem I have with this topic is that it’s concentrating a lot of attention, time of community members (that could be used a lot better at other places - that’s why I honestly didn’t read all those posts but only read sequences…) and possibly divides the community instead of uniting it further…

… And it’s a topic that already has been discussed in length and I’m very sure everyone is very well aware of all positions (and all of them are valid interpretations of reality)…

In the end its pretty simple - if maidsafe thinks it makes sense to spend 200k for a coin listing on a shady exchange with fake volume… Well than they can spend their money as they want and I will gladly support this decision - if not than I am sure the money is well invested too :slight_smile:
… If @foreverjoyful thinks this is a missed opportunity and stupid… Well… Everyone is free to collect money to pay for the listing - if that increase in price will for sure bring all the benefits you hope for than it shouldn’t be a problem to raise that amount of money :slight_smile:


Who would take part in this competition? the few of us that already know about the safe network. So it won’t make sure the developers come at all.


I agree with you. At the same time, MaidSafe has made a professional evaluation and decision (not to say decisions can’t change, but right now that’s what they think is right). That’s why this would have to be funded by the community members that believe it should be done.

It might be hard to prove afterwards that you actually were the cause of it (maybe impossible), but if it leads to the benefits mentioned, I’m sure it could influence future decisions by the team. All things evolve.

I recently had a discussion with someone about the different approaches to attention. I see positive as well as negative sides of indiscriminately seeking attention, as well as scoffing at some sorts of attention. There are downsides and upsides, and in the end what makes a successful blend is really an immensely intricate web of correlations. (Yeah I know I probably lost most of you there…)

People, companies, ventures follow their own mix of ideals, for good or worse. What seems totally crazy for some will be very successful for others.


Dude… Put 200K up for grabs in an app-building contest, share it on Facebook and you will have developers literally quitting their day jobs to participate… That is, within hours. Not that it would make much sense at this point anyway.

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it is smart to pay 200k USD for getting on

No you wouldn’t. Nobody is going to quit their job for potentially winning a 200k prize. Not to mention a competition is a one-time advertisement for the safe network. Not good value if you ask me.

A code hobbyist looking into the crypto space should be able to find us. We are listed on one exchange, in the US which means we aren’t easy to find by the rest of the world.

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That’s much too limiting, as only a small handful—if that—of developers would benefit. I think it would make more sense to choose a tactic whereby the returns could be more widely distributed. Comparatively speaking, deploying a tactic to increase the value of the token would positively impact every holder and serve as a beacon to those who have not yet joined the ecosystem (as developer, investor or trader).

Rather than betting that the winner of said competition would build something great, to invest the 200£ in an exchange listing would be to bet that every developer that holds MAID would have an appreciating asset that would increase their purchasing power and enrich the whole ecosystem instead of just a microcosm.

Nobody, huh? Dude, your argument for getting listed on Binance was attracting developers. I gave you a sure-shot recipe for attracting developers. Still foolish, especially at this point, but definitely a better way of achieving what you were claiming to aim.

That’s all I have to say.

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I was not even being serious. And of course, it wouldn’t be a winner-takes-all scenario. Anyway, I’m out of this one. If anyone wants developers, stop hallucinating about Binance, use the time by learning to code and – code.


Again, attacking me as a person and not the argument(which is understandable because you really can’t, there are no valid arguments against this).

Again, i don’t like going that route, saying what I have contributed and things about me has nothing to do with the argument and the proposal at hand, I hate to persuade people like that(show them who I am or what i’ve contributed, it’s actually a logical fallacy called argument from authority) Logic and debate wise, Mark Zugenburg or a homeless person should have their arguments given equal consideration, who they are has nothing to do with their arguments. But since you want to go this route… I’ve known since 2015, I’ve founded the telegram group of Maidsafe, that you’re moderating now - When I started to take this particular project more seriously in 2017(having in the previous year invested in it), as I noticed they should have a telegram group for marketing, which at the time they didn’t. I have been a big contributor to decentralised technologies in general, not just Maidsafe, educating my friends and other people about it, I have been an OTC Bitcoin trader since 2015, did online affiliate marketing before that while i was in high school, then as i discovered Bitcoins in 2015, I quit doing that and started OTC trading. Grew to be one of the biggest OTC traders on localbitcoins, during which I learnt a lot more about crypto and interacted with a lot of customers etc, which involved a lot with helping clients and teaching them how to set up crypto exchange accounts, wallet security etc and educating people about crypto in general. So i think i’ve definitely also made some contributions to decentralised technologies in general. All of that is off-topic tho and it doesn’t matter, it doesn’t strengthen my argument by one bit. The argument itself does. But I am really getting sick of people, when they can’t further attack my arguments, they start to attack me.

Anyway, because of what i did, I have made quite a bit of connections as well, a lot of my friends, or friends of friends, run other crypto projects. I’ve seen their marketing, I’ve participated in the ICOs… One of my friends specialises in ICO marketing, when he looked at this project, his literal words were “their marketing is shit, tell them to pay me and I’ll do their marketing for them” I didn’t really quite know what to say. So the style of my posts also is a reflection of the many frustrations I’ve encountered.

Regarding finances, I actually want the team to clarify the finances, as no one really knows that, but they mentioned they’re well funded for development, so 2-3 months of development cost as they mentioned, isn’t much as long as they know how to monetise it, it can at the very least, return the cost of listing on the exchange, if not much more, and I’m sure they have enough to survive the time from paying the $200k to being listed on the exchange, as long as they can survive that, that’s all it matters.

And sorry, i never said this, I said it’s ridiculous for the team to proactively open their mouths and ask the community for the money, having already done the ICO and having way enough funding to do so themselves with the recent price increase. But, in fact, i was just thinking, maybe I should offer. As I honestly can’t afford my time on these debates right now, like @riddim says, as well. And also I need to focus on my studies. This is simply wasting my time, debating with these people who don’t know what they’re talking about and don’t know/can’t realise what’s good for the team when the fact and truth is presented right in front of their faces.

Perfect example of someone who has no idea what they’re talking about. What you’re saying is getting developer interest isn’t a priority. Getting seriously rich investors to back the project isn’t a priority(as a lot of crypto funds are starting to buy the top 10 cryptos, getting it to the top 10 would bring unimaginable amount of press, and way more backers of the project, simply as a result of people knowing it), getting more traffic to the project isn’t a priority. Getting more developers to help the project isn’t a priority, getting a lot of developer funding so you can develop the project for much longer and better isn’t a priority, and making an easy $5 Million while increasing much more long term traffic and attention to the project is laughable, why the hell would the team do that? Not a priority at all. So stupid of them to do that(obviously, I’m being sarcastic).

For this project, developers don’t need prize to attract them, they’ll know what’s worthwhile to develop on, as long as they KNOW about us, which 99.99999999% of the worlds developers don’t. So how about you start there? It’ll not only bring more developers, both as investors would recommend it to their developer friends, but developers also actively explore top projects/platforms to develop on. A project ranked 100th just can’t compete against a project like ethereum who have a well brand name, so to speak, for developers. PLUS, the reason you want to list is so you can get much more than $200k in dev funding. So you can essentially do both, by paying $200k you can make at least $1 million, make that a developer prize after listing,

I don’t even know if that’s a troll post, it should really be deleted, but just in case you really can’t realise, that’ll make the market cap go from $160 to $320 million, a $160 million return, on a $1 million investment. So if maidsafe would just have held 1/160 of the total tokens, they’d break even.

Problem with that is you’d probably never see it happen, or it’ll happen unnecessarily slow, give a snowball a kickstart so it’ll build itself much faster to a big ball. And i say it may never happen if you do not kickstart it, is because there’s so many projects that are doing the same thing Safe is doing, or at least part of it. But many parts make a whole. You have people doing decentralisation of storage, decentralisation of VPN, decentralisation of hosting, decentralisation of buying/selling computing resources. Safe is trying to combine all of them, by the time they do, it’ll be too late and won’t be a big deal. Investors would probably lose all of their money, but the world is decentralised, so i guess safe partially achieve their goal, but partially because it’s still not perfectly decentralised. BUT, the thing is, if safe comes out in a world like that, even though the technology might be slightly better, it’ll have a MUCH harder time fitting in. This is like other, perhaps better search engines, trying to compete against Google, even though they’re better, they have way long lost the first movers advantage. So all in all, it’s actually an extremely risky move to not give it a head start because it WILL most likely lose the first movers advantage. It’s much more safer to actually spend $200k, and i shouldn’t even call it spend $200k, it’s more like, it’s much more safer earning $800k while giving this project a headstart, if you just simply hold maidsafe tokens.

Actually, terrible argument,(because in your scenario BTC, and all cryptos really, actually, all investments really, should just never increase in price because it’ll be at the expense of the people who got in late) but that aside, I do want to clarify that’s not my goal, because my goal is far from making profits and I don’t want it misinterpreted(Though that can be a nice side effect, as I would have more funding for the science research i plan to do, which would ultimately benefit humanity, but anyways that aside) Honestly, I have enough to retire and live a good life, yet I’m choosing to continue to devote my time to this project, to studying in uni, to do what I can to help humanity in general. So what is my goal in arguing for listing on exchanges? It’s simply, to not be ridiculous, and miss the opportunity, that’s presented right in front of your faces, an opportunity to not only pick up a bunch free money that can be used for development and marketing, but also get so much more attention to this project, so people would actually KNOW ABOUT this project. I truly believe it’s such an important project and listing it on big exchanges, would give it so much more attention, from the press, From the traffic on exchanges and coinmarketcap, from getting exposure to the serious investors, who will then tell their friends, and the marketing becomes socially automatic. It’s partly how Bitcoin and Ethereum got popular. Especially BTC, it didn’t have a ‘marketing team’.


But yes, again, I agree with @riddim in that this debate is time wasting. I can go on and on defending the fact right in front of everyone’s faces, but there’s no point I feel. It’s just going to be waste of time for me and everyone else who agrees with me, as some of the community would just never stop defending the indefensible. They’ll keep trying anyway. Although, I’m quite happy that I’ve made quite a breakthrough this time, because a lot more people are finally starting to agree with me and see the obvious fact in front of them.

So let me make a proposal to end this nonsense. I’ll fund the listing, if the team promises to do 3 things:

  1. Immediate token swap to ERC20, I can do my part to help with coding a smart contract to do this if needed.

  2. Immediate Rebrand. To a different name not including “MAID” at all. Safenetwork isn’t as great either TBH… actual name can be voted on, EON(extra-ordinary network) seems cool. Inspiration from EOS, which is another big project(that knows how to market and is currently raking in 20 million per day for development and marketing)

And No 1 and 2 goes hand in hand with the exchange listing. We need to complete them both before or not long(more than 2 weeks) after listing. Also I am happy to be on the marketing team free of charge and helping them with both No.1 and No.2, if they can actually let me be on their marketing team.

  1. Once listed, if there’s any appreciation of the token, I am given back 50% of the profits made from appreciation of the tokens that the team currently holds, after the exchange listing. So we record the market price when we agree on this deal, then record it again sometime after listing(exact time can be decided later. ) and completion of No.1 and No.2. Example, if the token was $0.5, and the team had 1,000,000 tokens, worth $500k, and if the market price after is $2 per token, then that’s $2,000,000 USD, profit is $1,500,000, in which I get 50%($750,000). And to be honest, If they are really serious about doing No.1 and No.2. I don’t even need No.3

I hope this will end the ridiculous debate that’s wasting everyone’s time. Or maybe the team finally wakes up and does all of these things proactively by themselves anyway, all those things are what the marketing team should have done a long time ago.

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for small investors it is good that the marketing of the project remains in the background. I personally prefer to be able to accumulate safecoin for another 1-2 years at prices below $ 10…

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