Scottish Independence Referendum 2014 (non MaidSafe related)


#1

Well, if it happens, I’ll probably move to Scotland. Apparently my ancestors had the surname Dick from Auchtermuchty - wherever that is - Don’t say it HappyB …lol


Any impact of Scottish Independence Referendum 2014 on maidsafe as a project, patents, future outlook, political trouble, non-eu member, whatever?
Any impact of Scottish Independence Referendum 2014 on maidsafe as a project, patents, future outlook, political trouble, non-eu member, whatever?
Any impact of Scottish Independence Referendum 2014 on maidsafe as a project, patents, future outlook, political trouble, non-eu member, whatever?
#2

Everyone will be welcome :slight_smile:


#3

+1

You buggers!

I wish Scotland luck and my heart says go, show us English what you can do. My head says it will cause short term panic and chaos (mainly for English politicians and establishment so no bad thing), medium term hardship for Scots and UK (Un-united Kingdom), but who knows what good will come in the long run. I can certainly see potential for it to help the kind of shifts I’d like to see happen. I will just support Scotland and Scots inside or outside the UK - we’re brothers and sisters in so many ways. I don’t see much impact on SAFE or MaidSafe, certainly nothing that concerns me.


#4

Out of the box thinking, nothing official. I think it brings to the fore, that things have not always been as they are now…a reminder that things can be different.

Didn’t quite work out for Libya though…


#5

I think that irrespective of the vote, this Referendum will likely result in Scotland being allowed to set its own business taxes. I would expect a drop in corporation tax to Irish levels, but probably a rise in business rates to offset that.

Also, I suspect even with a Yes vote, Germany will ensure the Referendum is held a second time to get the “right” outcome. They have form with this and Ireland, Ireland tends to vote the “wrong” way first time round but gets it “right” the second time round.

Furthermore, Germany will not permit Scotland to leave. If Scotland is allowed to break off, Catalonia and the Basque region in Spain will leave, and as they have most of the money and industry it would bankrupt Spain. The north of Italy would also break off with similar results, and Belgium would split in half.

In short, such a precedent would be the end of the European project. It won’t be allowed to happen. I think though, as with Ireland, they will shower Scotland with bribes to change their mind in a second vote, so it’s not at all bad really. We got some really great stuff last referendum :smile:

Niall


#6

Belgium is already pretty close to split or at least becoming ungovernable and very unstable. Catalunya is already very self-confident for many decades and probably furthest in the independence process of these candidates. The current systems can not continue on their outdated paths from previous centuries forever.


#7

TL;DR All borders will cease soon I think, but decentralisation is a process and this is an important part. Long may it continue.


#8

Borders are just old battle lines. To support them is to support the violence which defined them.

Humanity must move on from such primitive notions.


#9

Thank you for such well-meaning but ultimately vapid twaddle
In this case the border is (re)erected to save us from the economic and cultural violence of the Westminster elite and their puppetmasters.

They have already given us a small taste of their physical violence. We, on the other hand, have lifted no more than our voices and in a week or two our pens. Democracy is about to be shown to be working in Scotland and those would would impose “democracy” on others are shit-scared.

Actually, Traktion, anytime you see a straight line on a map, you can be certain that some Brit, Yank or French colonial administrator was playing with other folks territories. So your high-falutin statement was even more useless than at first glance.
Anyone opposing Scots independence is merely a Brit nationalist or controlled by the same puppetmasters.


#10

lol…tell that to all the Scottish voters who will return a resounding “No” vote.
“Vapid twaddle”…ooer…lol. The problem is the elites, not the English - who is going "to save us from the economic and cultural violence of the Westminster elite and their puppet masters?"
We’re better together in my view, I just really can’t envisage an independent Scotland. Harking back to old animosities is “Vapid twaddle” too in my view, we’ve moved on- it’s like my 2 mixed race kids blaming me for slavery or something. I’m sure most people in England would like to get away from the Westminster elites too - I have a completely different take on this to D.Irvine. The past is the past and sod all to do with the average English person, bollocks to Aethelstan, Bannockburn and the rest, it’s like me kicking off about the vikings or something. We are brothers and should fight the elites together - our common enemy.
By the way a hell of a lot of my family died ifighting in both the World wars - I don’t hold animosities towards the German people - again it is the elites. I’m not suggesting D Irvine bears animosities by the way, just that I don’t have the same sense of nationalism in being English - I’ feel more part of a global community without borders…


#11

Did anyone say “the English” were the problem?
The problem is the Brit elites - who as you rightly state most decent English would like shot of too.
What’s keeping you?
Frankly we are fed up waiting for the left in England to find its arse with both hands let alone mount any kind of credible opposition to said elites.
So we’re for the off. Hopefully the shock will encourage the working class of England(and Wales) to get their act together. We will be happy to lend any practical assistance. So far all the help we have had from our comrades in England has been whining to not leave them to the tender mercy of the Tories.
My internationalism does not stop at Dover, unlike so many of the so-called left in the UK.


#12

Yes, you, just then, 3 times.

As I said, it’s this kind of Nationalism/Patriotism that is highly useful to the elites for rallying the troops- same as religion.


#13

Southside said:
Did anyone say “the English” were the problem?
Yes, you, just then, 3 times.[quote=“Al_Kafir, post:19, topic:1416”]

Please point out any occurrence of me stating that “the English” are our problem.
The left in England is pretty useless but that’s not the real problem as you well know. The problem is the elites of the UK and those who pull their strings.

The Scots are doing something about it and in your jealousy at our ability to take action you lash out. Under the faux exterior of the fluffy-wuffy “internationalist” who disdains borders we actually find a bitter wee Brit Nat.

Too many sociology lectures and not enough real life work on the streets, son.


#14

Well you appear to be splitting hairs if you are saying “the working class” in England, “our comrades in England” and “the left in England” are not English. Either way, these are the people you are blaming and none of these groups are the “Elites” You appear to be all over the place saying first it is the elites that are the problem, then blame the common man.
I’m also not sure who “pulls the strings” of the elite as you say, sounds a bit confused. I certainly haven’t “lashed out” at anybody and the hypocritical way you then go on to accuse me of jealousy and call me a "bitter wee Brit Nat, displays your own Nationalism ironically.
Never had a Sociology lesson in my life, I’ve worked for various charities “on the streets” as you say, providing emotional support for others and highly unlikely I’m young enough to be called son by you,


#15

Our argument is not with the working class of England - or even particularly with the middle-class for that matter. We wish them well and wonder w3hen they themselves are going to wake up to how they are being exploited. Right now there is little they can do about it due to systemic historical failings of the Labour Party to defend them.
WE in Scotland however CAN defend ourselves and as you can see, we are doing something about it.
Now instead of trying to stand in our way, why do you not organise and take action yourself?
I am proud to be a nationalist, not for any great love of a flag but because it is the only method of effectively expressing self-respect and standing up for the beliefs of the Scots working class. FYI Scots overwhelmingly self-identify as working-class, unlike in other parts of the UK.
This has long moved on from being a kilt/no kilt issue to a class issue which is why we are winning. Time for the left in other parts of the UK (does that make you feel better?) to put aside their prejudices and actually analyse the situation rather than the knee-jerk reaction of trotting out tired old cliches about borders.
We are here to win the prize, not win a socialist debating competition about who is more ideologically pure than the next faction.
Which is demonstrated by the remarkable success of RIC who have united everyone that could vaguely be described as “left” with the exception of Labour Party careerists and three old guys who still think they represent some form of revolutionary socialism.
This is about the people of Scotland deciding to do stuff for themselves. We’ll argue about exactly what stuff at the forthcoming elections. But for now the left (and much of the rest of Scotland) is united. And we are winning.
Perhaps there is a lesson to learnt there by our comrades south of the border.


#16

Who is standing in your way? It’s not the English you have to persuade, it’s the Scottish - if anybody, then it will be the Scottish standing in your way, not the English. You talk as if you already have a “Yes” vote already, when you haven’t, nor are likely to in my opinion. You talk as a proud Nationalist as if Nationalism benefits the working class - it doesn’t, it benefits the powers that be, whether they be English or Scottish. Do you honestly think that you do not or will not have a Scottish elite given time? You state that you are “winning” - can you substantiate this claim in any way? You have also for some reason alligned me with the left, which I am not; I don’t vote for any of the 3 major parties and have no faith in any of them - whichever party you choose will represent the Corporate interests, not the will of the common man.
Forgive my ignorance of the RIC, (I am English) - I just looked it up but can find very little info about them even on their own website. ( Is this the polling evidence you will provide in support of your "winning claim? I did read that they claim that their polling is more accurate than all major polling surveys done, but it doesn’t explain why - maybe you could enlighten me?)
I’m not sure what the lesson to be learned “south of the border” is either, perhaps you could expand. Thanks


#17

Drawing another line on the map isn’t going to help. It just swaps one set of masters for another.

How about everyone gets to draw a border around their own house instead, allowing people to be their own masters?


#18

I am not sure I agree completely here. I think the more devolved all these countries become the less aggressive they become. I would like to see many more countries cut ties with their colonial masters and the like. There are difficulties in some areas though as we have seen as some countries in Africa descended into a bad way.

So yes I believe Scotland will go its own way (its not a new border) and then I would actually like to see further devolved powers in Scotland itself, why not have Shetland being more or fully independent. I think it all helps as long as the relationships with other countries are strong. The logical conclusion is perhaps the same as crypto currencies, the demolition of the super powers and super states and smaller more communicative groups of people who are not big enough to lavish war on far away places. Then we can focus on what makes us all better. Imagine not having the cash to buy huge guns and war ships and killing machines, it would be nice. Defense becomes something that is less required.

If you watch this

We really don’t all want to kill each other as much as we think.

It all takes time, but potentially this is another step in the journey to greater individual freedoms as communities are created as huge countries disappear. We can all dream :slight_smile:


#19

I would rather Scotland became independent too. Tbh though it begs more questions than it answers.

When does it become okay for a majority to take from a minority? 10m people? 1m? 10000k? 100? 10? It an arbitrary magic number, defined by some people fighting in the past. Why should any minority be subjugated to such tyranny?

I want to declare my home as a nation. Why is it any less valid than what Scotland is suggesting?

Redefining what theft is when it pleases the many just seems bonkers to me.


#20

I don’t actually see how devolution aids decentralisation in any way; they do not appear to be related. Whether it’s London or Edinburgh, power is centralised. You mentioned the problems in Africa and there are many others – look at what happened to India with partition etc for example. To my mind it just reinforces the idea of the “other.” It is similar to the thinking behind “faith schools” – how on Earth one can expect social cohesion/integration by splitting children up according to their parents’ religion is beyond me. (Never mind the fact that a child is too young to decide what he/she believes….it’s as ridiculous as dividing kids along their parents’ politics lines – we don’t have Conservative or Labour schools do we?) Community schools where all faiths (and none) can mix would be far more efficacious. – Anyway I digress.
I disagree with the logical conclusion you draw for the 2 reasons I give above. Insofar as the idea that smaller groups of people will not be able to wage war, then the flip side is that they remain defenceless in the face of those that do.
We can all dream David and your dreams of de-centralisation may become a reality, but whether Scotland devolves or not does not seem to be a part of the equation.
Just my opinion.