Scaling Bitcoin with SAFE

The first Scaling Bitcoin Workshop would be held in Montreal on Semptember 12 and 13.

What scalability solutions SAFE can offer to Bitcoin?

We can surely put the Blockchain and sidechains on SAFE.
Can a Bitcoin overlay with structured data help in scaling Bitcoin?
Maybe taking avantage of CRUST to connect peers…

Do we have low-hanging fruit to offer to the Scaling Bitcoin Workshop?
Any thoughts?


I once wrote an article including that question. I think it can be done, one big problem could be that a lot of people start to route all these blocks on the SAFE Net, slowing it down. Because when 1 blockchain runs on SAFE I think more will follow.

I think that if the blocks are popular the SAFE caching will automatically scale to follow the demand.


I think this is exactly right. That’s SAFE’s ddos resistance at work. Honestly, I think this is a perfect application of the network.


It’s that kind of architecture feature of SAFE that a want to find to “sell” the SAFE network to the Blockchain tech.
Put your Blockchain on SAFE it will scale. I am just tring to find some good argument for @ioptio since she’s going to the Scaling Bitcoin Workshop.


Bitcoin the “perfect killer app” for SAFE :smile:

SAFE could eek out the life of bitcoin a bit, but I think a native solution will trump it unless there’s virtually no difference between them in terms of capability and efficiency. Bitcoin has a footprint, but it is still very tiny in terms of the potential for a ledger / blockchain currency at scale.

@happybeing don’t take this citation to seriously
I was enjoying the irony of this possibility…
There is “” and a smile
I should say
Bitcoin the “perfect killer app” for SAFE :slight_smile: but don’t quote me on that :wink:

In terms of future potential i am with you but if we do a little reality check…
WARNING this may hurt people (like me) that already live in the future(in their head i mean…).
Bitcoin is the biggest up and running currency at scale.

But i share your bias, hey we are on a SAFE forum after all!


The stance of MaidSafe as of now is that we’re not ready to make conclusions on how bitcoin’s blockchain would be affected being uploaded to the SAFE network. It is something we are keen to explore and eventually make work but do not feel confident in making an official statement for the Scaling Bitcoin workshop. We should be seen as a future complimentary technology to other efforts for scaling blockchains.

I am going as an independent and active user of bitcoin (thanks to MaidSafe for paying me in it) and will be co-hosting a roundtable on “Trustless UX and Human-Crypto Interaction”.


off-topic, so apologies. Wouldn’t it be a better use of energy to work toward something long-term. I.e. converting NXT and/or Ethereum code to use safecoin and the safe-network? i.e. such that the safe-network gains their many powerful features.

Nobody today uses the Mosaic browser, and in a decade, those still using bitcoin are going to be seen as Luddites IMO.

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But I got a question.
Hypothetically speaking: if there is data deduplication in SafeNet, then all the bitcoin nodes participating in SafeNet are going to actually be accessing a single copy of the blockchain.
Then how would that impact the bitcoin security?

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The hash is the security. Unless all the copy are erased at the same time. But I doubt everyone will use the safenetwork for that. It will still have legit copy somewhere else. If someone modify at least one chunk it will not affect other that use the safe network. Only him.

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Oh, I don’t worry about the integrity of the blockchain, but the behavior of the full node and their consensus rules, confirmations and performance…

Would it mean that if the Blockchain is hosted in SafeNet, that suddenly all full nodes will behave like lightweight nodes?

No, as deduplication does not choose a winner. All it does is only save one copy of said data. The Bitcoin client will still choose what data to save, irrespective big this.

I’m not sure to understand. But some people upload the blockchain to safe network. Everyone have to do this like it was on their hard drive. There is no difference with local hard drive. Mad bitcoin node will behave the same way has local drive. The only thing they will do is create different chunk and hash which will not be deduplicated but a new data. That’s simple than that.

Why would I put the blockchain on the network if I need a local copy to work with?

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Why would you put any_file on the network if you need a local copy to work with?
privacy security and freedom :wink:
But just to name some: network resistance to man-in-the-middle attacks, data shared at the filesystem level worldwide.

I’m sorry but your arguments don’t make sense.

  • If I need a local copy, even if the security, privacy and freedom of SAFE is 100%, it can’t improve anything. Even if SAFE code is security-audited and 99.9999999999999% safe, having a local cashed copy and a SAFE copy from which I download is more risky than just having a local copy downloaded by Bitcoin itself
  • Network resistance is a totally pointless argument. I need network resistance to have my Bitcoin service be online, be able to exchange information with other bitcoin servers on the network, and always have an up-to-date & writeable copy of blockchain data.

You don’t need a local copy to work with. With safe drive, it will just look like a local drive, but file will be stored remotely.

Moreover, you don’t need to store gigabytes of data on your hard drive. If Bitcoin becomes successful, the storage requirements will become substantial. As only the first person who saves a new block will pay for it (thanks to de-duplication), it will be cheaper too.

This will encourage more people to both run full nodes as well as mine. In turn, this will drive down transaction fees and improve network security.

This may not be finalised, but last I heard you pay either way. I know early on it was stated as you have it, but believe that changed.

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