Over time on this forum, I’ve had many conversations addressing various Super-natural, Mystical or Pseudo-Scientific explanations for things (much more than I would have expected tbh). Without getting bogged down in all the same arguments again, I feel the need to express my thoughts more generally.
I may go on a bit here, possibly a stream of consciousness, but I don’t normally and feel there is “something” to be said……I may meander a bit.
Where I’m coming from…
The Maidsafe team have repeatedly stated that logic is their “boss” in regard to the project; logic is my boss too – in everything though. I would/could/do argue that this is the only rational thing we can do.
When I talk of “Science”, I (usually) mean it in the more general sense of using the scientific method, rational thinking, logic etc – “Believing” in Science is not really the same as believing in Religions and the like – they are entirely different concepts with completely different reasons for (and meanings of) “belief.”
I’m not a “believer” in Science any more than I’m a believer in aeroplanes or computers – it’s just not the right word. I believe the scientific method is the best means we have to investigate the nature of reality….that’s what I believe.
I am not expounding the virtues of an alternative “belief system” – I am promoting critical, logical and free thinking – religions and the like are just top of my (long) list of irrational and harmful ideas that are diametrically opposed to my basic belief. I am more interested in how people think, rather than what they think.
The problem we run into when arguing……
,….is that the methods we use to arrive at our beliefs are vastly different. If a religious person is being intellectually honest for example, they would be obliged to say that their method of “knowing” is Faith. Because of this, I would argue that it is impossible to have any rational discussion on the matter. In order to progress any further, it would be incumbent on the person invoking “faith” to explain how this is:
a) a reliable way of “knowing” anything
b) how it is any different from “imagining” or “pretending” etc
c) how the process works etc
scientifically and convincingly, otherwise they have basically just excused themselves from the grown up table……in my opinion. Certainly no further “rational” conversation can take place: However people do continue anyway, usually using the clever “it just does coz I say so” argument or merely state I’m deficient in some way or just play the “offence” card.
By asking me to accept “Faith” (on faith!), - a person is also invoking what is the debating “red card” term of “special-pleading” – again they should be sent off the pitch: The argument that “Faith works” is based on the premise that “Faith works” – the conclusion is the premise – it is non-sensical and circular.
Btw….does anybody (other than me) see a big woolly hypocritical Mammoth in the room here…? (This applies, at a minimum to all advocates of any of the 3 major mono-theistic religions currently supporting Maidsafe)).
“How do you square advocating belief in an Omniscient, Omnipotent, Omnipresent god, with the aims/values of this project?”
I think the following quote is a fair appraisal of the character of your god btw (backed up by text from Bible):
“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”
Not even seen such bad press for D.Irvine…yet……lol.
Seriously though, it’s belief in an ultimate in your face authority, all up in your business judgemental bastard and if he doesn’t agree with you or you don’t praise him all day, Guantanamo would be like a holiday camp by comparison….seriously what’s good about it? Why would you even want any of it to be true……lol……praising some arse hole 24/7, singing hymns……FOREVER……lol…
This is what I mainly don’t get – is the gloating over the un-saved, so attractive? If there was even a slim chance of it not being true I’d be at least INVESTIGATING other more scientific explanations – Nevermind that for it to be true, all rationality/logic has to be thrown out the window, all laws of Physics overturned, all morality skewn…And this is on top of the glaringly obvious reasons why/how Govts use religions to manipulate/mobilise their populations and have done throughout history.
How is this not all really obvious? Is it really just me?
Loads of posters on here rail against Corporations stealing your data, advertisers manipulating you, various conspiracies etc, but nobody seems to properly investigate or even recognise the Mammoth.
Nevermind your data, these people want your minds, nevermind the “app level” data theft, look at what basic “operating system” you have running, check it makes sense as it affects basic logic commands and everything else on your “computer” (or mind) – it is the back end of you as a person and vitally important – don’t let it be corrupted……aaaarrrrggggghhhhh………