SAFEnet should be able to do this? Tokens earning credits

People,

I think I am posting to the correct category - a Mod should feel free to move this post if not.

I have been keeping up with SAFEnet for a couple of years now (and have put hard cash into MaidSafe) because I have a few projects that could make really good use of it - for various reasons one of these projects is:

http://lev.com.au

I have had helpful responses here from @19eddyjohn75 on ideas for fundraising to pay for more buildings and my thinking continues to evolve on this issue. Currently I am thinking of a Donation / Guest model which will involve another non-profit organisation I will have to set up - I can go into more detail if people are interested - but I have some questions about data storage that relates to that model - in particular the final nature of what eventually happens with ImmutableData deletion.

For simplicity say:

  • I have a “token” that is represented by some form of SAFE data
  • The token is securely owned by a person / entity on SAFEnet
  • On the date of its creation and every year after that, the token earns a “credit”
  • The ownership of the credit is assigned to the owner of the token
  • Both the ownership of the token and the credits it generates can be re-assigned by the owner
  • The credits can used for something, thus being extinguished but the tokens are never extinguished

Maybe this stuff touches on Smart Contracts as well? Could some SAFE data guru give me some info about how this might work on SAFEnet?

Thanks,

Phil.

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I’m not a technical guru, but what you are asking doesn’t sound like something that would be impossible. Checked out some of your project videos and photo’s and it seems like the first building is coming along quite nicely, congrats! :+1:

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Thanks! It has taken quite a while to get there with lots of delays but starting to see what the whole village might look like now.

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I really love the idea, kudos to you Philip!

Personally I would like to see more made of the community element these villages could offer. Health is great and obviously really important. I grow my own food and live rurally etc, I’m very into ‘the good life’.

The biggest problem in our lives as parents though is the modern culture of individualism. We have a rural community, but it’s all over 70s farmers around here. We talk about trying to find a community of like-minded people to live with all the time. Raising kids is so hard with just us and becomes so easy the instant we have friends to stay with their kids etc. We desperately want to move somewhere cool that’s really future focused and will have positive impacts on our lives, but more than anything else we want to live in a community (like you describe) of a dozen or so houses with some land, good friends and good food. We have the money, the time and the will, the only thing we are still lacking is the community of families that we love/get on with and want to create a community with.

If you could somehow tie your project in with a forum or social network where people can get to know each other and discuss what they would want then I would certainly join and hope to find folks I’d want to live next door to. It’s great that you have a vision, but as a fellow decentralist I’m sure you can also appreciate how important it is to share your vision and set it free, allowing others to mould it to their needs a little too. :slight_smile: If you create a community and get us involved you might find loads of cool and amazing ideas spring up and it can evolve and develop even faster.

Love what you’re doing dude, great to see people carving out their own path and sharing their inspiration for the good of everyone. 'Nough respect. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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Thanks! It has become a bit of an obsession over the last 15 years . .

That is very important to me too - I want to build both physical and virtual communities. I have a couple of colleagues who say that if the first LEV works they would like to replicate the exercise on their own lands (South and North Coasts of NSW respectively).

I know exactly what you mean - in the old days the “Extended Family” would help bring up kids - I am torn between some of the valuable ways of the “old days” and the potential for exploring the rest of the universe . .

Exactly! The guy I have lined up to run the Tai Chi classes is an organic vegetable farmer within a 45min walk from me just outside town! I am making regular trips to their farm to buy nice, home-made, Chinese, organic vegetable dishes!

That is certainly one of plans - my dream is to have LEVs everywhere with people being able to chat instantaneously but also being able to physically move between the LEVs as guests for conferences and just plain friendly visits etc.

That is the plan too - I just need to need to get the first LEV kick-started and then as the dream takes shape and more people get involved, I can actually “retire” to my more personal projects instead of feeling totally overwhelmed a lot of the time because there is so much to do . .

Thanks for that - I really appreciate it - I think what I am trying to achieve is vitally compatible with what SAFEnet is all about . .

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@philip_rhoades you asked me to comment by PM so I’ll answer here. Just to say I’ve read what you are proposing but can’t add to what @Krekc has said. It’s going beyond my knowledge at this point - something I’m definitely interested in and hope to see, but can’t advise or critique yet.

@happybeing,

No worries . . it would be good to get some feedback on this so I can start to put the pieces together . .

Thanks,
Phil.

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It looks like the network’s MutableData structure would be able to currently fulfill all of these, with exception to the structure being able to earn credits. I’m working off of what’s currently implemented because I don’t know how safecoin will work.

What would those credits be based on?

The following is a link to documentation for working with Mutable Data using our web api. It needs updating but it’s a good introduction for understanding the structure before drilling down into language-specific libraries and core libraries.
http://docs.maidsafe.net/beaker-plugin-safe-app/#mutable-data

Currently we cannot delete ImmutableData.
There is an interesting conversation here about implementing the ability to delete ID structures: https://github.com/maidsafe/rfcs/pull/165

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@hunterlester,

Many thanks for responding!

Each token would earn one credit per year on the date that the token was first created. In my “Donation / Guest” model, each of those credits would entitle a person to a stay for one night in one of the houses in the village - sort of like an AirBnB arrangement. When the stay was complete, the credit would be “used up”.

I will have a look at those links.

Thanks again.

Regards,
Phil.

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When I first saw you were issuing credits, I had concerns that this might be classed as a financial product and come under AU laws regulating financial products/services.

But I see its more of a “coupon” credit. You might want to check that out and decide if you need to change anything so that it is clearly not a financial product. Or maybe you want it to be a financial product?

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@neo,

No, I definitely do not want it to be a financial product - I am trying to work out a model that is clearly not in that category - that is what I mean by a “Donation / Guest” model - people would literally be donating money and may or may not choose to take up the value of the credits earned from the token generated from the donation eg they could give it away to someone who is physically closer to the LEV or to a charity or whatever. Someone who uses the “credit” would be my guest in the village - not a paying customer. I want to avoid hassles with securities regulatory authorities . .

Thanks for responding,
Phil.

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Remember its not what you say it is but what they see it as. For example donations (can be/)are classed as payment if the received item/goods/service is of a comparable value/cost. Another example is that goods/items/services/credit/money regularly received as a result of initial purchase can be classed as dividends or interest and thus a financial product.

They try to catch you at every turn.

I wish you all success and this sounds like a great idea, but I would hate to see you caught out by stupid laws concerning this. The AU government like most governments want their pound of flesh whenever they can. So suggest you get good advise from someone who know the (application of) laws.

From my understanding if you worked it more like — Pay once and get yearly stays/visits should be fine and the length of stay depends on the payment amount.

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@neo,

Damn . .

Yep . .

Yes, it looks like I need to - now how to find someone that is clued-up in this area . .

Actually, that is exactly the case - one donation and the credits are created in perpetuity . .

Thanks,
Phil.

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As always the tax account is the first point of call. They should be able to advise on tax liability (if any) and give you someone who can help with the rest (if needed)