Safecoin supply

PS Edit:

Current total supply: 452m
current marketcap: $122m
early investor allocation: 226m
total supply at safecoin creation: 678m
implied marketcap of maidsafecoin: $183m
Inflation upon safecoin creation: 50%

Upon creation of safecoin and start of farming:

every 100 safecoin farmed, 86.9% go to farmers, 4.3% go to network maitainace, 8.7% go to app dev (this is similar to Dash model and ensure development funding)

That 90% you speak of does not exist.

The MAID coin is totally supplied, no more to come.

The SAFE coin has to be farmed to bring it into existence. The MAID will become SAFEcoin and represent 10% of the Maximum SAFEcoin. When MAID is converted into SAFEcoin it will be the only SAFE coin existing apart from the small amount farmed in the mean time after launch

Also remember that SAFEcoin is destroyed as people use it to buy resources. So it will be a long long long time before the total SAFEcoin in existence is anywhere close to max supply and likely never get too close

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no, if you look at the whitepaper, 10% total supply(which is equivalent to total circulating supply today) will be rewarded to early investors, and it will be immediately released upon safecoin genesis, so you will expect double today’s supply upon safecoin release, huge inflation and this doesn’t take account for dev team coins.

I think people just not paying enough attention to the supply issue and I believe given the expected 90% retained supply, it suppresses the price quite hard.

You have misunderstood that. It is only 10% of total supply is MAID conversion. They are the early investors.

There is 5% potential for other (early) investors who supply different funds. Not existing when SAFE launches

Then there is an ongoing 5% when farming for core developers. (Farmers gets 100% of farming rate devs get 5% of farming rate)

That 90% doesn’t exist. It is only potential coin when farmed There is zero SAFEcoin retained by anyone anywhere. THe only SAFEcoin existing at launch is the 10% for early investors who hold MAID and that which comes from farming

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you definitely should check your math and whitepaper and many of the previous chat in the past. I am petty sure that there will be 5% of total supply goes to early investor/family and 5% to dev team on day one, so it will double the current supply on safecoin launch. In any event, the supply will be double upon safecoin launch. Current circulating maidsafecoin only represent 10% of totally supply and early investor 5%, dev 5% are not represented in current maidsafecoin circulation.

No. You are wrong and please listen to this long standing community member :stuck_out_tongue:

Only interjecting because you keep denying truth

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Not sure how it even matters, there are tokens or coins with billions, some even like ripple with 100 billion yet that does not affect much.

I would say if the release were happening now, whether we had 100Billion or not, the market cap would still go up massively. It seems to me maidsafe is close to releasing a fully working consensus system that is not either proof of work or proof of stake based. Intriguing considering the fact that ethereum are searching for a scaling solution, and looking at proof of stake.

Completely off as @neo already showed you. It’s like saying: “The Bitcoin devs are holding all the other BTC that are not in circulation”. Check coinmarketcap:

These 452,552,412 MAID are in circulation, no more. And when then network goes live they can be traded one-on-one for Safecoin. From that point on all other Safecoin need to be Farmed.

You are probably referring to this document from 2014:

To allow distributed ownership of the network, MaidSafe will allocate 30% of the tokens on day 1. The coins allocated are fungible, particularly in the form of resources as backers reach their required returns or simply trade the coins. This allocation of safecoin will allow two separate entities to be rewarded:

The current MaidSafe investors have invested for the past 8 years with complete faith and a strong desire to make a difference. These investors have been the very reason the technology is now developed and this proposal possible. Five percent of the safecoin issue will be laid aside for these investors and as safecoin is increasing in value, current investors will be able to swap their shareholding in MaidSafe.net for the coins. The coins will be held by the MaidSafe Foundation for issuance at the request of each shareholder. The safecoin here will be allocated at the point miners are introduced onto the network.

Times have changed though, maybe @nicklambert can give some clarity here.

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It maybe reserved at day one for actual investors. But the coins don’t exist on day one. But as @polpolrene says things have changed since the paper and this may not even occur.

In any case why should this affect price. People know about it since MAID was traded and real traders would have factored this in anyhow.

Nope you are definitely wrong and if you had been reading the topics on the subject it has been mentioned many times that this is a ongoing 5% of “Farming Rate” and generated as farming occurs.

Again this has been known since MAID has been traded and any informed trader will know of this. Same as most regular members of this forum.

Basically nothing new and I noticed you have changed the problem from the creators of SAFE holding 90% of coins to devs getting 5% on day one. And both are still wrong. I doubt the MAID price will go down because of your “revelations” Yes I would love th price to drop again so I can buy more MAID :wink:

I suggest that if you want to talk MAID price you do it in the price&trading topic.

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@Kingslanding Just posting to confirm - i agree that you appear to be mixing up percentages of coin issue and percentages of coin earnings, and thinking all those coins are issued in one go.

Issued Shares/Coin

The 5% Safecoin are available to shareholders as and when they want them, but for cashing them in to be worthwhile, the price of Safecoin has to rise first - you should go do the maths to establish what prices that is yourself. So this portion can’t crash the price unless it first rises a lot, and a large number of those shareholders exchange their shares and sell the coins in a short period - that’s not in their interests if it affects the price. So they are likely to take their time. It’s pump and dump speculation that hurts price, not shareholders taking profits over time.

Coin Earnings

The other percentages you mention are all related to farming rewards. So if farmers are earning at a rate of X, then developers will receive an amount equivalent to 5% of X. Not 5% of the total coin supply, and not in one go. And so on for the other percentages.

Does anyone have a link to a post which lists the revenue percentages?

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The coin issuance is planned as follows:

10% of total supply for current MaidSafeCoin owners - available day 1
5% of total supply for direct equity (non BnkToTheFuture) Investors - available day 1
5% of farming rate for core (network maintenance) - earned over time
10% of farming rate for app devs - earned over time
100% of farming rate - earned over time

I’ve edited my OP further to a PM from @neo who helpfully pointed out a point that I was forgetting, which is that due to recycling of coins, the coins that exist on day 1 are best thought of as a % of total supply, whereas the coins that are distributed or earned over time (farming, core reward, app dev rewards) are all as a percentage of farming rewards. So, coin creations equates to 115% of the farming rate.

I hope this makes sense and I’ve not confused things further. Thanks again to @neo who is as ever on the ball.

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ok, thanks Nick, now I think I get the math.

Current total supply: 452m
current marketcap: $122m
early investor allocation: 226m
total supply at safecoin creation: 678m
implied marketcap of maidsafecoin: $183m
Inflation upon safecoin creation: 50%

Upon creation of safecoin and start of farming:

every 100 safecoin farmed, 86.9% go to farmers, 4.3% go to network maitainace, 8.7% go to app dev (this is similar to Dash model and ensure development funding)

Still, I think 50% inflation is quite substantial, shall we propose that the 226m early investors allocation, shall be subject to vesting, ie. 4 years (25% every year), that benefits everyone, including early investors.

You can’t change the rules afterwards isn’t it? And notice that coins are destoyed (free for Farming again) when you do the following:

  • Create an account and get an address/ID in the network
  • Buy domains like safe://website
  • PUT immutable data to the network
  • PUT mutable data (dynamic data with fixed address) to the network, will be way more expensive

I own MAID, but the first thing I do when the network goes live is probably back up my personal files (like I use Dropbox and others at this moment) and get a domain. So I will probably spend more when this thing goes live than I Farm). I bet a lot of others will do as well. So no one knows if we see more/less coins in the first months/year etc.

And guess what: when a lot of people try to Farm, the reward per delivered GB goes down. So no one knows how many coins will be on circulation in the years to come, although we might count the successful Farming Attempts and make quite a good guess. Test-Safecoin will show a lot of these dynamics.

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Every safecoin farmed goes to the farmer. 100% of farming rate

You are trying to work it wrong. 5% of farming rate goes to core devs and 0 to 10% to app devs.

So for every 100 safecoins farmed 100 coins go to farmers, defn of farming. Then Independent of farmers every GET done on average gives core devs 5% of the farming rate figure and similarly IF and only if the GET is due to an APP then these contribute to 10% of farming rate for APP GETs goes to App devs.

Another way of saying it is that for every 100 coins farmed 100 coins go to farmers and and extra 5 to 15 coins are created to reward core development (5 coins) and for APP developers (0 to 10 coins)

But because coins eventually find their way to paying for resources then these rewarded coins are recycled to be used again.

Even the day one coins of 10% and day 0 to infinity the early investors will also eventually find their way to pay for resources. (Obviously infinitely hoarded coins and lost coins are excepted)

Your equations also have to be modified to account for the fact that the 5% for early investors are available but not given to early investors so do not dilute the value. Until the investors ask for the coins they are not in the coin economics and when they are given they become available to pay for resources by the investor or person who eventually buys them.

The recycling really makes the traditional market cap type equations an approximation at best and misleading at worse.

Another point to consider is that even though BTC supply is increasing at the moment the price is not affected by its increase in value.

On day one there might be 10% (& 0-5% investors) of max coin in the market place. BUT on day two there might only be 9% (&0-5% investors) due to massive storing on the network.

Thus you can see that the total coin existing can increase/decrease from week to week. This in itself will create dynamics in the trading market space that we have not yet experienced with any other coin.

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