Safecoin investment

Was wondering why do people buy maidsafecoin hoping the value will increase…

SAFE users will not buy safecoins after launch when they can earn safecoins just by being connected to the network with free drive space.
A minority of these users may buy safecoins because they don’t have space left so they will have to buy coins to actually use some services on the network BUT the majority of people will dump their coins on exchanges instantly because they received them for free so it’s all profit.
For example what gives bitcoin value today is that you need to actually pay $ for them, if everyone could mine free bitcoin with a smart phone the price would be single digit because offer will be far superior than demand
I don’t understand how is SAFEcoin price meant to increase, if someone can enlighten me please do?
I am really interested in this project and think the value proposition of the network makes safecoin price actually irrelevant but i am curious about why people invest in this coin ?

Hi @malice !

There’s this blogpost from Maidsafe about the economics of Safecoin (and why it has/will have value)

Disclaimer :smiley: : This blogpost is nearly a year old and things are changing fast at Maidsafe so some things might be incorrect by now.

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It’s the same with Safecoin really, just replace the word “mining” with “farming”.

Correct…it will likely be single digit…but considering that single digit is currently $0.02 (as opposed to $250.00 ,then given the utility of Safecoin within the Safe Network,there is quite some room for improvement.

This is the part I would contend and I would research further into why this may not be the case. :smiley:

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Or they’ll just hoard them because they recognize SafeCoin is a better payment system than Bitcoin and if SafeCoin gets Bitcoin’s market cap or even higher, they’ll be worth many many times more.

You are turning things around here. A commodity doesn’t derive value from the amount of that is being asked for it, the amount of that is being asked is determined from it’s actual value, which is determined by demand, which is determined by it’s utility. SafeCoin has far more utility than Bitcoin. Instant transactions, no transaction costs, actually anonymous transactions, and you can buy cheap, secure and private cloud storage with it.

This is incorrect. You can mine “free” Bitcoin with a smart phone, the quantity just isn’t worth it. The value in coins you get is proportional to the cost of the resources people put in it. The amount of resources people are willing to put in is determined by demand, which is determined by utility.

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Btw, it is well known that the massive commercial mining farms in Bitcoin dump most of their Bitcoins on the market immediately because they have to pay very high electricity bills. Those guys are actually after instant profit, rather than saving Bitcoin because they believe in it. So a more spread out issuance of the coin will most likely reduce the dumping.

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The SAFE network has the potential to become a significant store of the data which is currently hosted on centralised servers. The chances are pretty good that it will take a decent chunk of this just due to price - the price of my hard disk space that I will farm Safecoins with is ‘free’ so I’m happy to make any income at all from it at all i.e. it’s inevitable I will be able to undercut AWS, dropbox etc. There are numerous additional benefits to storing on the SAFE network but that’s a whole other topic :slight_smile:

Anyhoo, there are a finite number of coins which might end up representing say 0.1%, 10%, 50% of all the data that we all store. At present the data centres we have use 1-2% of all the electrical power output on earth so this gives some scope about the potential. That excludes speculation, hoarding, utility (which could be huge) and all that other good stuff.

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Thanks everyone for your answers, this crypto world is new to me so i tend to mix things up a bit so thanks for the clarification.

I think i got confused because i didn’t know maidsafe had a finite number of coins so it makes a whole lot more sense now.
How are the coins distributed? when will the coins all be farmed? and what will happen then, no more incentive to offer drive space?

EDIT: i will read melvin link, all info is there i think.

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This blog post by David might help you too

The coins are distributed to people who provide data storage and data routing to the network. The issuance is not on a fixed timeline like in Bitcoin, the aim is to issue coins proportionally to the growth of the network. When all coins are issued, farmers will be rewarded with the SafeCoins that are paid to the network when people store data on the network, similar to how Bitcoin rewards for miners will in the end solely come from transaction costs. I wrote a sort of summary on these things in this thread: Lowest PUT price discovery (and new SafeCoin issuance)

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Thanks guys, I feel a bit stupid should i edit my first post?

I have a lot to read now, all the interesting stuff i was looking for!

I will probably buy some coins too :slight_smile:

Nah it’s okay, it would only confuse future readers. Maybe other new people will have the same questions, in that case we can point them here.

Damn, that leaves fewer for me… :wink:

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hey Seneca,

Are the coin issued by someone or is the issuance written in the code? if the latter how does it works exactly? how is the growth of the network calculated, number of nodes?

I am done with the questions now, those are probably answered in doc you all gave me.

The issuance is determined algorithmically, so yes, by the code. It will be tied to the use of resources of the network, somehow. The exact plans are not known in detail to the public here, if it has already been worked out in detail at all. The current plan seems to have it be closely tied to the amount of data that is requested (downloaded) from the network. In the thread I linked I recently made a proposal to tie it directly to amount of (used) network storage.

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This stuff is fascinating to me, i discovered bitcoin a month ago then i listened to a podcast on letstalkbitcoin about maidsafe project and that’s how i landed here :slight_smile:

I have so many questions so if anyone has time to answer please do !

  • will maidsafe have an app for iphone ? has anyone ever built a decentralized software app for iphone?
  • will safecoin be divisible?
  • are transactions totally free?
  • will it be easier for developer to built decentralized markets/echanges on the SAFE network?
  • how can i recover my password if i lose it since there are no third party?
  • will SAFEcoin blockchain be open source and viewable by everyone?
  • who is the person that started this project?
  • will SAFE network be available for all operating systems?
  • could SAFEcoin be used outside of the SAFE network? is the community here for or against this?
  • will the network have any rules? how can those be enforced?
  • what is max amount of SAFEcoins that will ever be in circulation?
  • are data linked to IP addresses/nodes?

Aaannnd the killer question: When is this going live?

cann’t wait :slight_smile:

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Here’s my best shot at your questions -

It will be on the iPhone. There is no guarantee though that Apple will let it live there as it’s pretty disruptive. They don’t allow popcorn time for example. However the SAFE network is SO much more than just a video share platform they may eel have no choice (especially if it takes off as many here think it will)… time will tell

Not as far as I understand. If required in the future there might be smaller denominations such as Safepence for example which might be worth 0.01 Safecoin.

You can set up trusted friends/family members to have the ability to reset the password to your account (i.e. three out of five would need to verify you) but not sure of the exact details of this or if it will be a feature on launch.

There is no blockchain!!! Kinda nuts but there’s consensus required by the network for each transaction by a number of nodes (28 our of 32) and once that’s happened the transaction is approved. This is sufficient for security and also means it’s anonymous as no need to broadcast and store each transaction.

A chap called David Irvine who’s active on these forums quite a bit. He’s been working on this for around 10 years believe it or not and he’s pretty inspiring (listen to the Sovryn tech podcast if you can and also the SAFE london meet up vids and you’ll see what I mean)

Yep :smile:

Safecoin only exists on the SAFE network. It can be traded in or out instantly on the SAFEx exchange (another really interesting thing to learn about)

There are simple rules which are followed by the network which enable everything else but I think you;re getting at things like ‘are there any rules in terms of behaviour on the network’, and if so then no. There can’t be any censorship. You can broadcast/consume/do anything you want - in fact that is utterly essential for this to be private and surveillance free. On the app level you can set up your own filters for things you do or don’t want to see and hear but the network itself treats all data the same.

No!! The IP is scrubbed very early on.

We’re about to enter test net 3 in the next few weeks I’d say. This is the final test net and my best guess is mid August but that is only a guess. It’s such a unique project that there are problems which are impossible to anticipate. Having said that the vast proportion of this project is now done and all the fundamental infrastructure in place.

Might have missed something here and if so anyone feel free to correct/add :slight_smile:

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That’s the goal, but who knows how Apple will handle the request :blush: . I know they’ve been hesitant to accept Bitcoin apps and also have banned them for multiple months/more than a year.

yes

in comparison to what? the old internet I guess :blush: ?

Don’t think this is possible

Never say blockchain and safecoin in one sentence again :smile: . Joking but a lot of people don’t realize this, Safecoin and the entire SAFE network doesn’t use blockchain technology (it’s not anonymous for an example) This post from David explains how consensus can be reached without one: http://blog.maidsafe.net/2015/01/29/consensus-without-a-blockchain/

Transactions are only visible for sender and receiver.

David Irvine (blog: http://metaquestions.me)

Yes

Not possible to do transactions outside the network, but maybe it’ll be possible to ‘proof’ you own safecoins in a way outside the network? Not sure about this

It’s autonomous so the network will enforce the rules.

4.3 Billion

No :wink:

Testnet3 is almost there, might go fast after that !

Just noticed someone else answer all these questions as well so I might edit this one

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Bitcoins are not free. They are actually quite expensive to “mine” and very unfriendly to the environment. Hardware costs and electricity costs have forced some large mining pools to suspend operations as they await the - always anticipated - BTC price increase. In some cases costs exceed price. The price of this asset is designed to increase in value overtime because (in very simple terms) it is designed to be increasingly more difficult to mine over time and its controlled supply of 21 million. The current reward for mining a “block” is 25 bitcoin and that will be cut in half in mid 2016 to 12.5 bitcoin.

Bitcoin is inextricably 2 things, a currency and a technology called the blockchain.

There is a great deal of interest and venture capital going into blockchain technology.

There is also a great deal of interest and investment - arbitrage, derivatives trading , etc - going into bitcoin the currency.

Hope that helps.

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@luke

“it’s anonymous as no need to broadcast and store each transaction.”

so there is no way to verify that a transaction did in fact happen, wouldn’t this be problematic?

“I think you;re getting at things like ‘are there any rules in terms of behaviour on the network’, and if so then no.”

yep I was refering to behaviours and i was also thinking that anyone could have access to content on the network, i wouldn’t
want my son to see disturbing stuff so i guess it’s more a network for adults?

can developer create any kind of website? are there restrictions? is it even possible to prevent a site from being created?

do you know how will websites be accessible? will the network have a browser? website have urls?

@melvin

“in comparison to what? the old internet I guess?”

In comparison to other decentralized project like openbazaar

“Not possible to do transactions outside the network, but maybe it’ll be possible to ‘proof’ you own safecoins in a way outside the network? Not sure about this”

yep my bad, i thought SAFEcoin was like a blockchain altcoin :slight_smile:

Will every site/app on the SAFE network be decentralized? is it even possible to create a centralized site on the SAFE network?
A simple example, someone creates a forum on the SAFE network is it possible for someone to moderate that forum?

Also wonder if anyone ever built a decentralized software app for smartphone? Devs seems to be struggling to create
a desktop software so i’d think that such app would be even more complexe to create.

The entire SAFE network is decentralized and autonomous, it won’t be possible to create a centralized anything on top of it because that’s not how the technology works. Have you already watched this intro/overview?

Just watched it :smile:

I’m pretty amazed to think that everything on this new internet will not rely on any central servers,be fully encrypted and anonymous, almost too good to be true lol

Do you know why it took 10 years to develop? maybe Mr Irvine spent years researching how it could pull all this together, this is innovation, no one has done anything like this afaik so he probably spent days and night thinking how he will make it work lol