Safecoin Farming 101


#22

Hello

I have read your farming 101 and think that it is great but I think that the current Maidsafe explanation is probably the best and we should stick to it. http://maidsafe.net/farmers


#23

Hi People, I just wanted to ask how far it is, I would like to work as a Safecoin Farmer Searcher…

if it*s already startet let me know!


#24

We’re almost there. Give it a few weeks. Come back every Tuesday evening for a weekly development update on this forum. :slightly_smiling:


#25

from what I understood, there is a possibility of providing resources without getting returns, the bad luck idea if we refer to lottery.


#26

In theory yes, but what that means is you would not earn if the resources you are providing are not useful to the network. If they are useful, you will earn. You won’t earn every time data is retrieved, but over time if your resources (bandwidth, speed and storage) are reliable enough to be useful, then you will earn. And it will be far easier for people to reach this threshold than with bitcoin, where only those with the fastest most expensive (and energy intensive) equipment can earn now.


#27

And its not really a lottery either, but can be seen as that until you know the reason behind it.

When a get is made, some hashing/maths is done to determine if the get is to have a coin attempt. This will on average occur once every (1/FarmingRate) gets.

Then when a coin attempt is made then the address of the coin comes from some maths (using details around the get) and the network attempts to create the coin, only if the coin does not exist can it be issued to the “vault”. Remember that we were told recently that recycled coins are deleted to free up the storage used and makes the issuance test simpler.

Basically you will get a farming attempt occur 1 in (1/FR) gets from your vault. This can mean the next get, then approx (1/FR) gets later. Of course this is not exact, but more statistical. And until more than 1/2 the coins are issued you have a better than 1 in 2 chance that an attempt will result in a coin.

Thus one advantage of running multiple vaults. Each vault will receive chunks to store at approx the same rate (so 5 vaults means you are storing 5 times what you would with one vault). Also you statistically will receive the same number of gets for each vault as you would for one. Again 5 times the gets than if you ran only one vault.

The limiting factor is the size of the 5 smaller vaults. Once they are full then that 5 times factor reduces to 1 times as the larger vault fills up completely


#28

Thats right.

I like to think of it like a time based learning lottery. The network will add positive values of sorts and learn where it can PUT and GET data from efficiently and will return to these sources and hence reward them. In other words if you set up a good working rig with no downtime no matter how big or small, you will be rewarded.


#29

There is of course the problem of data going stale. That is new files stored will be accessed (on average) more often than months/year old files.

So if you keep your vault running for very long periods (months/years) then all the chunks are months/years old and you would expect your get rate from the vault to be reducing over that time on average.

There is another advantage of running multiple vaults because you can restart one vault every week and let it fill with new data that will receive more requests on average. Thus for a 5 vault system your vaults are never more than 5 weeks old.


#30

Hmmm that raises the question. Can I kill my vault?


#31

What with a 4x2 ?

joking aside, you just stop it running and start it again, the system gives the vault a new ID and starts filling it


#32

That easy ey? I remember reading something about vault or node limits. Must find…


#33

Yes there are limits, but I would think from experience with previous tests that 5 should be possible on a PC. But then people might run multiple SBCs

Limits are how much RAM is used, the size of your disks, bandwidth available, cpu power

All these will put a limit on the number of vaults one can run.


#34

The ongoing re-factoring challenge for the Devs… let’s hope David takes far more beach walks and sailing trips. Hopefully with the success of SAFE utilizing the Rust language, there will be just as many eyes focused on developing the underlying language as there are on the network protocols.


#35

@neo
From what I understand, if you power off the machine this removes the Data from your Vault and the next time you switch it on it will begin to refill.

So, would that then prevent the issue from going stale?
I’ve just started in this forums and I’m trying to understand it to the fullest I can, so i’m not certain yet I understand it fully.


#36

@neo Also, by 5 nodes on a PC, do you mean 5 seperate HDD/SSD with space set aside for Farming?


#37

This has changed some from when this discussion started.

Now the data will be recoverable and the node/vault can potentially rejoin with its chunks validated. Node aging affects this

So now when you turn off the vault contents are not automatically wiped when the node rejoins the network. We are unsure at this stage exactly what will happen, but basically if the chunks validate and your node age is sufficient then you will rejoin with vault contents intact and your new age is something like old age/2

Yes that is 5 vaults/nodes all with their own vaults. Where the vault storage reside on disk will be up to how the vaults are configured. One disk or upto 5 disks depends on how the 5 nodes are configured


#38

Hello everyone,
Although, your explanation is pretty clear there are a couple of details missing for noobs like me. How do I share my hard drive space with the network? How do I now I was granted a safecoin and where it is stored? Sorry if this question is too basic but I struggle to find any informations.


#39

This is not possible yet, not until beta will there be Safecoin, although you will be able to participate in testing that involves sharing hard drive space earlier - alpha 4 or 5 (can’t remember).


#40

Hey there, this is pretty cool, any chance of finishing it up and posting that video?
I would like to share it and this would help a lot of people understanding the process.