Safecoin divisibility

Are you suggesting other SD types along the lines of “SD note”?

If you are then the problem I see is that they would not be in the same security model as SAFEcoin&SDnote. The reason being that the core programming handles SAFEcoin SDs in a very special manner. Freezing SAFEcoin for your unique currencies might not be possible, you would use an exchange for that.

Maybe they could incorporate the logic for SAFEcoin transactions as a “SD-transactions” procedure where the network can have an alternative SD transaction system that does the same as the coins but tailor it for non-network (SAFE) currency. In other words the general SD transaction process has the security but leaves out the special processing that assumes its the network currency.

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I guess I’d “like” for peeps to be able to create as many tools currencies, securities, derivatives, etc. as possible in an easy and effective manner. I love what they’ve done over at NXT and I’d like to see a lot of that functionality in SAFEnet. But clearly this is just wishful thinking on my part. Hopefully we can at least have a solid method for divisibility or the user-appearance of divisibility.

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Yeah, maybe a bunch of new currencies will just spring up on SAFE and we won’t need divisibility.

Problem solved!!

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removed, not relevant

IMHO, Safecoin divisibility will be necessary sooner than later. At the time of this writing Maidsafecoin’s market cap has nearly doubled in just under a week. Most of this growth was due to speculation of the release of MVP. Now that MVP has been released it continues to sky-rocket upward.

Lets say Safecoin trades for $0.25 a coin once it is officially implemented in to the network. I for one will think twice about spending my Safecoin, if it cost $0.25 worth of Safecoin to upload a 1MB file or send a single email. Safecoin is the oil of the network, lets make sure that oil has the right viscosity.

I know the devs are busy working on other more important issues right now. But, this will become a major issue down the line if we don’t start thinking about it now.

Basic law of economics: the more something cost the less of it you will get.

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AFAIK that’s not how it works. When you deposit 1 Safecoin to upload data it wont be consumed right away. Instead, it will be slowly consumed as you upload data. Once the Safecoin is depleted you’ll have to deposit another. So it works as Safecoin divisibility but only for the network.

That said, I agree we need some kind of real Safecoin divisibility at some point.

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To put this into perspective after the first 100 chunks are uploaded on the network the cost is 1 / 1.2676506e+30 Then this is offset by number of users which will increase the cost proportionately. So it’s unlikely the cost of uploading 1Mb will be any more than 0.00000000001** as an example.** Not conclusive maths here, but just pointing out the 1 coin per store is first chunk on network only. 2nd chunk is 1/2 third is 1/4 fourth is 1/8 and on it goes. It should be a tiny amount in practice.

Hope that helps.

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Do you have a link to where I can read about that feature of the network.

I haven’t seen anything mentioned about halving the cost to store on every successful put.

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If you read this rfc you will see the whole process. It’s not as simple as halving per Put. The farming rate is adjusted with every put or loss of sacrifical chunks.
https://github.com/maidsafe/rfcs/blob/master/proposed/0012-safecoin-implementation/0012-safecoin-implementation.md#establishing-farming-rate

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Oh I understand, I hadn’t thought about it in terms of the farming rate balancing act. That context explains it very well, thank you!

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I’m scrolling through the topic seems to be somewhat a harsh problem.
What is the current status of divisibility because it’s not to far away safe coin is going to be implemented I believe, or am I to early to ask the question?

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It would seem so, not until the coin is worth a whole lot more. I have yet to put up my proposal for division which seemed to have gain a lot of interest when I outlined it here or elsewhere. The impression I got was the devs want to implement SAFEcoin first before looking at divisibility. The one thing I want to fix is once divisibility is added to safeguard against attacks using extremely small amounts to flood the network with transactions that we want to keep as free transactions.

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Okay I’ll take a look at it in the coming days if I find it.

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As the price of Maidsafecoin rises, I thought it would be a good idea to bring this topic back to the communities attention.

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Divisibilty will happen, it is planned, lets wait for safecoin before we worry about divisibility.

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What if I go to the store and want to buy one cigarette? Or 3 Tic Tac’s?

The desire for smaller units doesn’t justify an infinitely small minimum unit of measure. At some point you have to buy a ‘package’ of some larger size even if you want just one smallish unit of something.

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Why can’t we just increase the total amount of safecoins by a factor of one million. Then make each Maidsafe coin equal one million safe coins.

Because if you increase the total number of coins, you increase the amount of work required for every transaction by the same proportion, which means slower, less efficient etc

So double the coin total means twice as many coins need to be transferred to transfer a given amount of (fiat) value.

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As @happybeing says.

And additionally people want micro transactions and when safecoin reaches $1 then your million times would allow micro dollar transactions. But then what of micro cents transactions?

Then there is the whole world of IoT where transactions of data might be charged at 1/1000th of a nano dollar == 0.1 nano cent. In this case you would have to multiply safecoin by 1,000,000,000,000 (a million million) times. The network could not be expected to ever handle this.

So then we need a balance system for the safecoin fractions and since this only adds one transaction for the fraction of a safecoin in a transaction it is a suitable method. Thus if I send 5.601345 safecoin to you then on average 6 transactions are needed.

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We must also balance farming rewards. If they get too large, nodes will likely centralise.

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