Well the simple economics of it is that if you give away a ton of money, it is called “Inflation” and the money isn’t worth what it was intended to be.
But No. I know a ton of people that work in Ag. Yes the farmer may farm (until they are broke which happens all of the time even now when they are allowed to keep their money.) but what about the ladies putting the oranges in boxes? What about the mechanic who constantly has to fix machinery to keep production going? What about the cleaning crew that comes into the packinghouse and disinfects it daily? How bout the truck driver who has long boring hours? How bout the stock clerk in the grocery store? I don’t think many of them would be working if they where not getting paid significantly more than if they didn’t work. And without them you wouldn’t have groceries in the grocery store.
Your dreams are delusional sillyness. Waste of time… Again and again and again.
@jreighley Except that is what Norway and Sweden were like for decades. And still are to a large extent and can be again. So no delusion just tried and true reality like all the other examples I gave you.
@janitor US tries to claim 130 millon or so adults working, but its full time regular employment its probably closer to 100 million full time. Then you’d have to multiply multiply by 160k to get the GNP.
It’s 97 million I think I saw the other day, but I didn’t multiply by 2 because it’s seemed excessive so I picked 180 million.
See, when you start planning for this stuff you already run into troubles: when people need to work, 130 (or 100) million turns up. When you want to give them money, 160 or 180 million appear in front of your door. And it’s downhill from there…
Okay, @Warren. Let’s say that the means of control are in place to do what you say. Say I make $150K one year and think I should keep all of it, because I did something really extraordinary and saved the lives of 100K people.
What do you advocate doing about my keeping all my income?
Sweden and Norway had very different cultures than most other areas. Because of their environment, history and culture, they already had a very cooperative society. So the socialist experiment seemed to work for quite a while. Over time, however, it has eroded the social and cultural landscape and no longer works the same. That’s not a process that more socialism will reverse.
Talking points are talking points, but the Scandanavian countries are poorer per capita than nearly all of the US states, by nearly every measure.
And they are supported by Big oil. If every state where like Alaska we could all earn 2k a year or so in dividends. But they are not.
Still no rebuttal on why the truck driver or fruit grader would bother working eh? The points that you cannot argue against you just change the topic and move on.
Money that magically appears always turns out not be money, because money that is of any worth is backed by production of goods and services, and if no goods and services are being created, there is nothing to trade your money for.
I’d dissagree partly because Sweden and Norway used to be worse apparently than Mercantile England and they turned it around and partly because they still needed apparently to deal with have more actual cooperatived appatently with getting rid of corporatism especiall corporate media. They still have ugly vestigial monarchy. So some of the global austerity clown stuff especially post oil find has been corrupting. But Id say the mive toward debt enslavement austerity basis with the neol liberalism was going backwards. Like in the states we need to reintroduce all the controll we had on banks and finance in the 50s and more. Neg interest is hugely backwards and stuff like that has been part of the Scandinavian system degrading.
Where do you get your phoney numbers from? And no when they were by far at there best there was no oil support. And you were responded to concretely very concretely. What you say can’t worked, actuallt worked in those countries for more than three decades and was the high point ever achieved anywhere on most measures. The stuff can scale.
Okay, make it 500k. What do you propose should be done about it if I don’t pay voluntarily?
[Edit] Better yet, assuming you would be in no personal danger, what would you personally be willing to do about me not “putting in my fair share” if you had the power to do the enforcement?
I has my lines above. If its your actual contribution, which is quite plausible for a lot of people. At a much higher amoumt it really comes down to theft of OPM and you’ll find the law in most places allows people to go to great lengths to retain their property.
I don’t care about what you do with what is rightly yours, but if it comes to taking even by paper device what is someone elses against their interests and informed will, well its a theft. We close the loop hole that allowed it and use the least forceful means. Have to take scissors out of a baby’s hand.
No, no, no. I asked you specifically but I’ll rephrase: If I definitely made a lot more than you considered I should keep all of, and you had nothing to worry about as to your own safety from taking action, and you had the means, what would YOU advocate doing or DO YOURSELF to deal with me?
(Would it be theft to not wish to give money over to a system that I find morally objectionable?)
I didn’t give you any numbers, but there are many many sources suggesting that the wealth and wonder of Scandinavian socialism is vastly overstated. If you look you will find them all over the place.
“Subject material is likely to make you drool. Keep in mind that even though wages are high in Norway, so is the cost of living. You pay around 30% tax, spend 27% on rental housing and pay NOK250 or US$45 for one large take-way pizza. A family of four can struggle to live off one parents average wage in Norway. Hence, both parents find a need to work in Norway.”
All of the Scandinavian countries combined have a population less than the state of Texas. Its like comparing peas to watermelon.
Where do you get your numbers form? I don’t remember you ever using numbers in any discussion I have had with you even when I have begged you for them…
How much does the average citizen get paid if they don’t work?
Well first off there will be nothing credible to support those claims because they are wrong. But it would have during the same period when the US was doing better have been and maybe adjusted 45K a year no stigma, no justufication, its yours if you want it.
The page I linked to gave extensive salary information. You can run the numbers through the google currency converter and compare figures. That site didn’t smell of “propaganda” at all – just the facts.
They probably earn more than we do at most jobs - but as the site warns the taxes, rent and cost of living is about double here –
How much did you propose to pay everyone for doing nothing? How much do you claim the Scandanvian countries do? “Nothing” wasn’t on the salary list… What is a fair living for a guy who doesn’t work?
I’m trying to get you to stand behind the consequences of what you are promoting. By being evasive, it seems you are unwilling to do that. You may mean well when you say that people should be taxed so that everyone can have a guaranteed minimum, but you won’t own up to the fact that, when it comes right down to it, it’s theft (or extortion, at least). Consequently, you speak very imprecisely and vaguely, and won’t take on the responsibility of being willing to carry out the violence that you are promoting. And make no mistake that you are promoting violence.
I’d have more respect if you’d say, "Yeah, you should be taxed and I’d personally hold the gun to your head, or those of your wife and children, to make sure you pay. I wouldn’t want to associate with you, because you’d be a psychopath rather than just confused, but at least you’d be being honest with yourself and with others.