Safecoin and taxes

I didn’t give you any numbers, but there are many many sources suggesting that the wealth and wonder of Scandinavian socialism is vastly overstated. If you look you will find them all over the place.

Here is a rather impartial example: mylittlenorway.com

“Subject material is likely to make you drool. Keep in mind that even though wages are high in Norway, so is the cost of living. You pay around 30% tax, spend 27% on rental housing and pay NOK250 or US$45 for one large take-way pizza. A family of four can struggle to live off one parents average wage in Norway. Hence, both parents find a need to work in Norway.”

All of the Scandinavian countries combined have a population less than the state of Texas. Its like comparing peas to watermelon.

Where do you get your numbers form? I don’t remember you ever using numbers in any discussion I have had with you even when I have begged you for them…

How much does the average citizen get paid if they don’t work?

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Well first off there will be nothing credible to support those claims because they are wrong. But it would have during the same period when the US was doing better have been and maybe adjusted 45K a year no stigma, no justufication, its yours if you want it.

Come on. Live and let live. Maybe in the heat of passion, generally I don’t do stupid.

The page I linked to gave extensive salary information. You can run the numbers through the google currency converter and compare figures. That site didn’t smell of “propaganda” at all – just the facts.

They probably earn more than we do at most jobs - but as the site warns the taxes, rent and cost of living is about double here –

How much did you propose to pay everyone for doing nothing? How much do you claim the Scandanvian countries do? “Nothing” wasn’t on the salary list… What is a fair living for a guy who doesn’t work?

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Duck and dodge.

I’m trying to get you to stand behind the consequences of what you are promoting. By being evasive, it seems you are unwilling to do that. You may mean well when you say that people should be taxed so that everyone can have a guaranteed minimum, but you won’t own up to the fact that, when it comes right down to it, it’s theft (or extortion, at least). Consequently, you speak very imprecisely and vaguely, and won’t take on the responsibility of being willing to carry out the violence that you are promoting. And make no mistake that you are promoting violence.

I’d have more respect if you’d say, "Yeah, you should be taxed and I’d personally hold the gun to your head, or those of your wife and children, to make sure you pay. I wouldn’t want to associate with you, because you’d be a psychopath rather than just confused, but at least you’d be being honest with yourself and with others.

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The rate which makes work voluntary. I’ve heard read most have two homes and country has the highest rates of volunteerism…

Opps sorry I didn’t mean to type that. Meant to say I generally don’t do stupid.

But no, disgorgement is not theft, its theft prevention. People only earn according to what they contribute, or the base amount that assures the right to be idle.

I took no insult.

But you have still to answer my question?

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So, My source gives detailed salaries for every common occupation – and warns that even though wages are high most families are forced to be double income because the cost of a pizza is 45 USD…

And your answer is “The unemployed are paid enough that work is voluntary” I would like to see a source, Sir. I suspect you are totally making that up.

Wikipedia says Sweden pays 39 dollars per day to people that are unemployed actively seeking employment. Thats 273 per week. Sometimes the unions support their workers more generously, but the benefits dwindle pretty quickly with lenthy unemployment. Here in Washington state unemployment payments go up to 384 per week. I don’t see any Scandinavian magic there…

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What are you referring to as “disgorgement”. Is this some term for taxation? Theft prevention? Are you stating some ideal?

Can you say this in another way that I can understand? It makes no sense to me.

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Oh, I get it. Disgorgement is retrieval or repayment of ill-gotten gain. Like stolen money.

So let me get this straight: I go out and, through insight, cleverness, hard work and some good luck, invent a device that gives some benefit to my fellow man, or even just something that they think is cool enough to pay something for it. I sell a buzillion of them and make half a buzillion dollars.

First of all, what portion of that is ill gotten?

Second, say the government decides that I only get to keep what adds up to the high end of a middle class income–because who needs more than that, right?

Third, the government declares everything over 200k to be ill gotten, because above a certain level, my work, creativity and cleverness, and luck, are really the property of “mankind” and so take most of the buzillion and use it to give to poor people, and the arms manufacturers, and (of course) the politicians, and all the bureaucrats that do various sorts of useless action so that they can then be idle.

Now, what I want to know is this: Will YOU be willing to be holding the gun and pointing it at me when I say, “Screw you, I have better things to do with the fruits of my labor and good luck?” Are you personally willing to come and take me and lock me in a cage and take away my possessions and my freedom?

If not, you are being hypocritical. If so you’re being a thief. If you can’t decide, maybe you’re being a deluded sheep.

Honestly, I don’t know which you are being, @warren. You may be being something else I haven’t figured out yet. I don’t think you’re evil, but you enable evil by your thinking. If you are supporting these actions, you are partaking just as much as if you were doing it yourself. I’m hoping you’ll wake up to the fact.

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A “right to be idle?” What are you talking about? Granted, a free human being has the “right” to do (or not do) whatever the hell he wants, as long as by doing so, he is not infringing upon the rights of others. If he wants to be idle, he also has the right to endure the resulting consequences, i.e., no food, clothing, shelter, etc. As soon as his “rights” begin to impose obligations upon others, that is where their “rights” end.

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Find Bertrand Russel’s short paper on it.

Was Mr. Russel a socialist too?

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Under typical progressive taxation, as long as you continue to do constructive things with money that don’t hurt othets or damage the public interest you keep the bulk of it associated with your name and control. Stray from that and incur the full tax. Refuse the full tax and its an abuse of money power issue and go to jail.

The currency itself is just a claim on possible demand, the currency is the property of the people. The fairy tale example above is the exception not the rule. The amount you’d have to pay someone who helped you should be the amount you need to give someone who really didn’t need the money, because that is what a proper society will create. Or the amoun they would need to become a competitor. The best societies by far in history model these principles, the US was close during its glory years but it was far from the freeest.

I think so but widely revognized as one of the greatest intellectuals ever, a strong philosopher and mathematician and a knighted brit.

There is nothing wrong with being rich. It is a proof that a user worked hard, smart, and got his share. Your net worth is based on networking.

I am glad to see bitcoin. and safecoin exist, it give us a better protection from the ancoms, and statist. You will never own user coins, and user share. Your democratic, communist system will never work with cryptos. This is a truly individual system. Taxation is thrown out of the window. Go ahead and throw punches into the system, it will bend but not break. As technology continues to progress, it will rebound, and statist will use anarchy platform without knowing. This is called osmotic strategy. Ancaps are building for a better society, while others chant to change things by promoting democracy which has no significant improvements or performance in the last thousands of years.

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Okay, Warren. One last time.

Are YOU willing to do the job of holding a gun to my head and throwing me in jail because I refused to contribute to your conception of the ideal? I wouldn’t go willingly because I wouldn’t consider I’d done anything morally wrong. Are YOU willing to force ME into a cage to uphold your ideal?

Yes or no will do. Anything else without yes or no will be considered a good cause to ignore you completely of any subject such as this from here on out. Hopefully others will feel similarly.

Yes or no

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12 posts were merged into an existing topic: Let’s talk taxes

This topic went far off from the OP. Remember, the starter of this topic asked these questions:

Do we have to think of a tax on transactions?
Any thoughts?

Please go back to this topic (the combination of Safecoin and taxes), or feel free to create a separate topic on taxes alone.

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