SAFE URL: "safe://" cross browser support revisited!

Not according to the devs.

Which I argued as well (in the thread that this was split from). I would request that they revisit the matter in light of further google search results.

Or else explain their reasoning if there’s a gaping hole that we both overlooked @TylerAbeoJordan

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Maybe @dirvine would weigh in? Or whomever is ‘in charge’ of this. Would be nice to have a full discussion and resolution to this problem/issue i.e.
[web-server + custom protocol handler (SAFE:)] --> see post four of this thread.
versus
[plugin + fixed tld (.safenet)]
versus
[custom browser]
versus
other?

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Given the 19th of Jan dev update, it seems @Krishna_Kumar is integrating the proxy server idea which, I believe, will intercept all requests using a particular tld (e.g. .safenet).

I suppose then that if we want to use a “SAFE:” protocol handler, we may have to build this separately with a separate web-server system … or our own customized browser.

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If we are focusing on the new browser then it means we need to build html / css parser, and then build a javascript engine or a new scripting engine. I found a blog that starts on building a new toy-browser. It is a toy browser but it could lead to something better.

Or… why not just use servo? It has android support. Servo supports https:// and file://. No doubt that safe:// and ipfs:// can work as well.

Or we could take redox approach, everything is a url.

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+1 for servo. That would be freakin’ sweet.

Still not-so-privately pissed about the integration. Bold move Maidsafe (the company)…bold move.

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Sorry for the delay in replying, I missed to follow the forum yesterday.

For sure. I will sum up my findings here.

If the local config file is edited as said in the post, this makes chrome to look out for external applications to handle the URL. Which means that the launcher should register itself for handling the SAFE: scheme. So this forces chrome not to throw an error and pass it to the OS to handle it.

So for discussion, let’s consider that Launcher registers for the SAFE scheme with the OS.
Now, when the user keys in safe:mywebpage.io this will be passed to the registered application for handling the same. Launcher gets the request and fetches data from the SAFENetwork for the URL, how will the response be passed back to the browser?

Other browsers/applications can also start sending requests through the registered handler, making it more uncertain to determine the origin of the request and also to reply back to the request. (Let`s ignore this for now)

Assume that we can pass the data back through an extension/addon which is already installed. We can make use of native messaging API of chrome for exchanging data with launcher and addon. At this point we are not sure on which tab the response message is to be sent. Even if we find a means to send the data to the correct tab, we will be forced to clean the DOM and render the received response (consider it is a plain html for simplicity). The html can have resources linked, such as css and javascript, even these resources can be fetched and injected into the DOM. But places where there are inline definitions for images, we must be able to identify and do the needful to serve. We won’t be able to support relative path referencing.

Moreover, the data (main html) is injected via scripts from the addon. The features like local storage wont work across applications. This happens because the browser doesn’t consider this has a page load and the hostname would be google.com or the previous site from where the safe URL was invoked.

Summing up few ambiguities,

  • How will the launcher identify the source of the request (this is just a invocation request)?
  • How will the launcher serve the data back to the actual origin?
  • How will the resources be handled?
  • Can we provide the basic features that normal web does?

A similar problem exists with Safari.

Am not sure what plugin means in this context. If it is NPAPI plugin, then chrome doesn’t support it anymore.

Any suggestions for alternate tlds? I know you are not for the TLD approach :wink:. But how about we have a fixed hostname, something like http://safenet/mypage.html, http://safenet/blog.mypage.html . This one definitely hampers the readability of the URLs, IMO. @happybeing also had a suggestion of having a real domain, to help in case the users don’t have the setup for SAFENetwork yet.

I have not tried magnet links, but I assume that they also work on the same basis. And I can see that it is not consistent on chrome probably because of various reasons (lack of permission to edit the chrome local state file).

It is good that I finally summed it up, because it would be easier for you guys to help us with your experienced insights.

:thumbsup:

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I understand why the TLD approach is being chosen, but I’m not happy about it at all. I’m mostly afraid we’ll forever be stuck with it as TLD links are used and stored everywhere in SAFE apps and people’s minds.

Why not just bundle a rebranded Firefox (including required plugins) with the installer? If people are adventurous enough to switch from their current solutions to SAFE, using a different browser to visit SAFE web content isn’t that big an ask. Especially if it’s included in the installation.

A single dedicated browser has many security benefits as well. Using the same browser for both the regular web and the SAFE web practically guarantees cross-contamination and security issues. Simple example: Javascript code in a SAFE website that creates a direct connection with a regular server, de-anonymising the visitor. This can be solved easily in a dedicated browser (disable any communication other than with the SAFE launcher service). In a regular browser, especially restricted ones, this may not be solveable at all.

I fear the virtually guaranteed security holes with non-specialised browsers are going to hamper SAFE adoption’s a lot more than the non-optional usage of a dedicated browser.

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Brilliant. Simply brilliant. I much appreciate the insight and thank you for the time that you took to respond to us.

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My view of the matter is that this will only be used for backwards compatibility with existing clearnet browsers.

It is unfortunate, but necessary for mass adoption - I do not share your particular fear there.

I am much more interested in sandboxed native applications. Or at least a sandbox that can accept plugins for all types of display purposes.

Do one thing and do it well
– Unix Philosophy

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That seems to be the general opinion here, but I haven’t seen convincing arguments for that.

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I’m 1,000,000,000% for this.

We shouldn’t falter in the face of Google chrome etc. We should stand firm and proud in our stance as a new, secure, independent internet protocol.

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This isn’t really about not being proud of our protocol, I don’t think anyone could accuse any one in the community of that :). The way forward that @Krishna_Kumar proposes is really about having a solution that works quickly, is maintainable and works across multiple browsers. In my view we have to make switching to SAFE as easy and painless as possible and IMO a dedicated browser is not the best way to achieve this.

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@Krishna_Kumar thank you very much indeed for this. I know you are very busy so I really appreciate it and think it is very valuable for the project that we have such an approachable and responsive development team. It warms my heart. :slightly_smiling:

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I’m with this one as well. I can bet that none of my friends will be interested to install a dedicated browser for SAFE but if it’s just a plugin in Chrome they might give it a try…

Wishful thinking but if SAFE gains enough attention hopefully Chrome will change to allow a more flexible link handling? :sunny:

If I’ve understood it, the current plan will work with any browser out of the box - no plugins - just install the SAFE client and go! :slightly_smiling:

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oh, ok ,misunderstood it then :stuck_out_tongue:
it’s a little late here and all the technical terms are messing in my head…
well in that case that is really a great approach that will sure not hinder the acceptance of many people :smiley:

kudos team

I’m probably missing something here, but I imagine that the server, once it’s located the resource (or not) will pass a normal http://localhost/mysite.com to the OS, which will then pass it to the preferred browser . The link would be a local file that contains js that can push the SAFE:mysite.com link to the browser address bar (but not the history). The content however would have links like http://localhost/mysite.com/link1.html …link2.html …etc. So effectively calling to the local SAFEnet webserver to provide the data. Copying links would be a problem … but all else I think would work. Then again, I am possibly missing something.

A more consistent approach would likely require a custom browser hacked to deal with “SAFE:” … but that would of course mean that people would need to use a SAFEnet browser which is rather limiting and I think we’ll need to wait until we have a large number of people using SAFEnet before we consider doing that – although maybe I’m wrong here.

I am not concerned that we will be ‘stuck’ with using a fixed tld into the future. IMO, we will have ‘SAFE:’ sooner rather than later simply due to the ability for existing brands to cross-over into the SAFEnet paradigm e.g. SAFE:google.com

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(Introduction: I don’t know a lot of what’s going on with this topic, especially right now due to the turbulent nature of everyone/myself getting cozy and then being ripped into new territory, constantly—let alone that said coziness in the first place might not even be based on full comprehensions. Nevertheless: welcome to my post – that I, regardless, spent a lot of time on! [Still, even if I am off-center in my thinking –> that which lists ahead is some scattered, simple, new content.] )

RFCs are brilliant I’m realizing, since it’s so often that people can be proud of their idea—an idea which can be a huge step in the right direction.

…Yet, after even that, there are still more steps.

Afterward, someone else can ‘step’ in, at that point, and show their idea after creatively having come to its conclusion (which is likely based on the previous person’s step).

That said, what about " _S_ttp:// " … ?

Surely, “safe://” feels really good for all involved in the community, right now—utilizing exact mimicry, of the name for which everyone has fought a decade.

But sttp:// retains 85+% of the text/characters that people are used to, when viewing the 'net.

//** On a different note: perhaps, people obsessed with phone-like simplicity these days might not even know about _h_ttp, lol. **//

//** (Or, even weirder, somehow integrate the SAFE Network into " shttp:// " – so that, basically, every website now has “shttp://” tacked onto it. …That’s probably too conflicting, though.) (Also, at that/this point and beyond in this post, I’m probably in over my head, with my possibly insufficient knowledge; so, beware…!) **//

Furthermore, certain people maybe will crave a ‘switch’ on the browser that switches between http://, and sttp://. … (This part isn’t me being over my head. After all, ‘switches’ of convenience are as casual as anything.)

… Of course, sttp:// and http:// are two entirely different Internets. But, I can imagine opportunistic people—once the SAFE Network is basically/fully out—mirroring entire, existing clearnet websites onto their own hard drives, to host the collective data (of which these people are hopefully the original owners… but that can’t be guaranteed, that I know of—maybe not even likely, because of the Safecoin incentive…!—but I digress).

So, install the SAFE client, and enter “s” instead of “h”, and you have access to an entirely new Internet. Simple, huh? :relaxed:. (Everything else can be added upon that, with an add-on, etc., for even further casual atmosphere.)

… … …

(An off-topic “Forum.Safenetwork.IO” web design bug, while I’m here: Using underscores to denote italics does not properly work when within square brackets! && Two line breaks are required for the italics to work, within the square brackets.) [Example given: Hello, world!.

[Example 2 given: Hello, world!.]

[Example 3 given: Hello, world!.]
[Example 3b given: Hello, world!.]

[Example 4 given: Hello, world!

[Example 5 given: Hello, world!.

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Exactly. Once you build it, people will use it. If it went to masses, it will be harder for them to move over to a newer better client. Like for an example, ICANN / DNS system. There are better dns system out there but nobody is switching over because they are lazy, and they rather stick with the old system that already exist, and works.