SAFE Network vs. Internet Service Providers


tried to search but didn’t find such earlier topic, and not sure where to post, (perhaps wrongly) I chose ‘beginners’, being such and looking for discussion on most general, speculative level.

The way I understand, the current basic model of us Internet users being dependent from a rather limited oligopoly of ISP, is radically antithetical to the technical ideal of freedom from servers as well as ethical commitment to Secure Access For Everyone.

I realize this is very big and complicated question with many different aspects, What do you think are the most interesting and important aspects, how do you estimate and speculate launch and spread of SAFE to affect currently existing ISP market and business modell both short term and long term? Do you see SAFE network affecting in long term even the ownership and control of the physical infrastructure of Internet, and what way do you wish for situation to develop in that area?


Note: traffic increase will probably only be because of Nodes being run at home. Nodes in datacentres are not ISP traffic anyhow.

Short term will not see any significant effect at all on the ISP model/market. It will just be another (small) set of traffic through the ISPs. Doubt any particular ISP/location will see a particularly significant increase in traffic and will go unnoticed. The only noticeable effect might be a few connected to a few ISPs/locations who push their data quota limit (even if on unlimited with fair-use).

As SAFE is adopted then the traffic becomes moderate and probably less than what bittorrent is today, so again the ISPs are not concerned but some may have noted this increase in traffic. Many ISPs will review their plans for more links to ensure they will meet the growth. And some ISPs will try and restrict bandwidth which might affect some to run Nodes.

Also I think bittorrent traffic will decrease in the medium term because it migrates to SAFE and typically will have as much traffic on SAFE as it did have on torrents.

Longer term will see the traffic increase and those ISPs who have planned for any increase in bandwidth needed will see more customers coming over from any ISPs that try and restrict bandwidth. And in some areas with only one ISP servicing them, then its up to the ISP which way they will go and it’ll suck for those who are restricted since they may not be able to run nodes from home.

But history tells us that even the ISPs that try and restrict, they still increase bandwidth in the long term.

So for the ISP market place I predict that they will adapt to any increase in required bandwidth as they have done in the last 20 years. Remember the few MByte per month quotas and 28 or 56 Kbit/sec link speeds? Now in AU we have 100/40 mbit/sec available for many (soon to be most) and I have unlimited quota. Yes 10 to 15 TByte/month does not get me any nasty letters. Not that I do that each month :slight_smile: My ISP 13 years ago would send a nasty letter at 3GB a month.

Now comes the question of MESH networks. Will we see the rise of the mesh networks in the next 10 years? Will we see more of the community owned ISPs which will be a combination of mesh/traditional connections? All these will affect the traffic flow and how the market looks longer term. But short term its doubtful we will see this much at all.


This is very interesting. Do you see any synergetic possibilities of SAFE protocols(?) becoming the de facto standard for dropping 3rd party ISP gear from between home and community MESH networks joining up, or rather, how fast that could happen?

As many have warned, current model of Internet, of which we have become so dependent in our everyday life, is extremely vulnerable, and robust decentralization of both soft- and hardware (e.g. SAFE + MESH) would be much more safe and resilient in case of natural catastrofies etc, e.g. a strong solar EMP pulse and recovery from that. .

Another, perhaps related question. What is the risk and pragmatic potential of the oligopoly of ISP using the recent political overthrow of net neutrality against SAFE network - where AFAIK net neutrality is built in -, if and when they start to perceive it as mortal threat to their corporate state priviledges?

I’m not the best person to discuss MESH and SAFE. But there are a number of topics already that touch on MESH

Eddj @19eddyjohn75 might be able to help further or point you in the right direction.

hi @id-entity this topic may be interesting to you:


:rofl: @neo I don’t really understand all this stuff (clueless consumer).

Isp should not worry their pretty little head about the SAFE Network (it’s a computer virus and it will spread everywhere). Here’s an idea for a new isp, a wireless hardware with integrated sensory that’s outside of houses. Make money by selling data generated through the sensors, farming SAFE and make internet free to use.

Sure we got Opengarden but not everybody is using it

Over $200 billions in crypto, crypto community still not focus on becoming our own isp.

I’m most optimistic about Freifunk :drooling_face:(they got actual working hardware)

Hope maidsafe will have a partnership with them in the future.

@id-entity this might also interest you



I think it will be less, cause today one person seeds all the time if there is lower seeders to leechers ration.?

in safe you upload once and then each 1MB chunk is in many seeders and a 1gb file has 1000x many seeders so thousands of seeders for one file from the first time its available for get

I don’t know where you get this from. Each chunk is replicated a handful of times. Repeated GETs along a particular route may lead it to being cached, so certain popular chunks will have more copies spread around, but only for the time they are popular and only along the particular routes delivering them. I doubt this will reach 1,000 copies even for very popular data, it is certainly not typical.

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1gb movie got 1000 chunks that are in 3000 to 8000 pcs!!!

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Apologies, scanning too quickly I missed the “1gb file”