Back to English please kaaskoppen
Ik heb het aangepast, nu zelf met een foto erbij.
For the non-Dutch, I made a spelling error instead of “try out the new mail”, I said “trouble the new mail yourself”. Ooh kee I’m sorry but I was just too exited to spread the news.
nice…our local paper only accept 60 characters, that’s even to short for the link: http://www.hethelewestland.nl/kleintjes/plaatsen/
I also have deep concerns about using node.js for Safe applications, specially when you look how npm pulls dependencies from everywhere without any kind of integrity checks . I have the feeling that this alone makes it non suitable for any application that would manipulate sensitive content.
So, while it has certainly severe drawbacks, it allows us who are eager to learn Safe, to very quickly jump straight into what is important.
“I do want to learn but you don’t go straight from arithmatic into calculus or from learning to decode sounds into writing a scientific paper. There needs to be a progression of education. Also isn’t the code meant for an app developer? If it was meant for writing a library wouldn’t the aim and purpose of the tutorial be different?”
If I needed to learn a language I didn’t know, I would go away and learn it, then come back when I had a good understanding of it. I wouldn’t expect a tutorial which has knowledge of that language as a prerequisite to teach me it.
There are loads of books, videos, articles, etc on then net. Even the node compiler is free and you can experiment with it. I am struggling to understand what more you want, other than asking the devs to write another node js programming 101 tutorial, which would be a waste of their time.
If it’s a prerequisite state so clearly. And as I stated above adding a link to already established resources doesn’t cost a ton of time. If the attitude of the dev tutorial writers is that node.js is a prerequisite to understand the API then that should be stated explicitly. If the assumption was that you need to understand C++ or Rust we’d be having the same issue. Because not everyone understands the same language to the degree the tutorial writer does. It’s not a waste of their time to take educating entry level coders seriously because that will be where new app devs start coming in from.
“What I really find disrespectful is this intellectual snobbishness that seems to be so prevasive among some devs.”
Seriously? Software development is a profession. It takes years to master. You don’t seem to be prepared to put in the leg work, which understandable, but please don’t insult those who have spent the time to master the discipline - that is disrespectful!
The safe net devs are creating great resources for devs here. I am not an expert in node, but I created a java implementation just from reverse engineering the last undocumented test net. Without wishing to sound even more snobbish, I could do this because I have spent years refining my craft.
Learning how to write good software is something you largely have to teach Yourself. You have to digest the tutorials, then experiment, then repeat over and over again until it becomes second nature. You then become conscious of design patterns and good techniques and you start to master the process.
If you don’t want to put the time in to master software development, fair enough - I don’t have time to master mechanical engineering either. However, I don’t complain about not being able to design and fabricate car parts - I just let those most qualified do so, then buy the car assembled.
Sure, they should have some prerequisites. That is easily added.
I agree. The entry level to understand the API is just a bit high.
If I wasn’t willing to put in the leg work I wouldn’t be bothering to learn the API or underlying languages.
Yes self education is extremely important. I couldn’t agree more. I’m a huge advocate of self education. But weren’t you the one talking about not reinventing the wheel? Why learn through experimentation what has already been documented and outlined. If you need to experiment in order to comprehend great but that doesn’t negate the value of having good educational materials close at hand.
It is like you are asking get the engineers who design and fabricate the car parts, “how do the robots work?” They may have a good idea, but it really isn’t the forum for it. The robot building and programming forum is.
If you have questions about node.js, a forum dedicated to learning node.js is the best place to start. They will link all sorts of node.js material, lessons, help for beginners. That is the best place to start, rather than expecting those here to teach it.
So the engineer says “Well I don’t have time but here’s a link to the robot building forum.” Especially if the engineer wants the inquierer to learn how to build more robots. If SAFE devs writing the tutorials don’t have time then link to the information or desired forum where it is available.
Exactly. This isn’t a how to write node.js apps forum.
So on the tutorials LINK to one that is. Even bloody college courses reference their prereqs and refer you to the couses you need to take in order to understand them. This is not a novel concept.
I think you have many good points, but probably we require to have two streams here.
- Release for application developers (as now)
- Learn how to to code with SAFE applications
point 2 is a really huge issue in many ways. Time is a killer obviously and then what language? We have created a RESTfull API to be language agnostic, so it would be misleading to provide step by step guides for a single language (I mean learn the language then learn SAFE).
So you should not see node or react etc. as the language of APPS, we choose those for rapid delivery of multiplatform examples.
I am only adding this as it seems there is a belief node/react/electron etc. are the language of SAFE when we have tried very hard to be language agnostic.
The key will be choose a language (almost any language) that allows you to design a GUI and basic app logic for whatever platforms you wish. Then use the REST API to use the SAFE network.
It would be wrong and misleading for us to push any language and we do not have enough resources to cover many languages at once, although forum members have done some examples in python/go/c#/java etc.
Basically choose your language first then learn it via the resources on the net (many languages have free tutorials, even university courses, none of which again we can really push above others).
I think we need somehow to put that across in a better more clear way, otherwise there can be confusion.
I wouldn’t usually be so sparky, but this line of conversation is getting a little daft: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=node.js+tutorial
I would expect any junior dev to be able to figure out what to research and get to it. You already know this is node.js and the launcher is a rest API. Just Google, play about and learn.
Clearly we have different philosophies on this. And this seems to be a case of if you want something done you need to do it yourself.
The example only use the API I needed when I created my apps. So you could either just take them and make an app or complete it to include all the API calls that are missing or a bit of both.
Either way at some point you need to get your hands dirty, take the example, change the values of constants, put console logs everywhere and hack at it. It’s totally normal if you hit a wall at some point! No worries about that, just ask me or on the dev forum and I would be happy to help.
Now be adventurous and get your hands in there already!