SAFE Network Parallel to Internet?


Please excuse my ignorance, but is the SAFE network meant to be a network parallel to the Internet? Will the Internet be accessible from the SAFE network?


No worries. You are still connected via tcp/ip to both systems. It’s cool.


The definition of a pump is a system where anything that goes inside it, it is much more unlikely for it to come out again. I feel the SAFE network will soon become a pump: sucking up the traditional internet, and it will be unlikely for innovations made inside SAFE to leave the SAFE network afterwards.


SAFE will appear to go through stages:

To start it will look like functionality that is part of the internet, or uses the web:

  • its like cloud storage with Dropbox like features, with some apps like chat
  • more apps are built that are mostly like the existing websites, web services and apps (social networks, Google docs, twitter, email)

Then it will start to appear more like a new internet platform (like the web was when it appeared) as people realise, well geeks at least realise, that SAFE eliminates lots of vulnerabilities for the services that it provides (servers, internet protocols, plaintext communications, defeatable secure communications etc.).

Once people are able to abandon their existing operating systems will everyone start to see SAFE as a replacement Internet 2 (actually its probably Internet 5 or something) that improves and extends what we have. At this point more and more users’ machines will be almost bare metal and boot direction from SAFE over TCP/IP.

Eventually the old internet will be shunned as dangerous place used mainly by people stuck with legacy systems, and a new generation will grow up only having known SAFE (like those who today think the internet is the world wide web, when the web is just one of many protocols built on top of TCP/IP).

That’s my take. Comments?


There’s no reason why one of the applications couldn’t function as a proxy to the web. In the hypothetical SAFEBrowser, you would type in safe://
and that page would be fetched for you and cached in SAFE. This is much the same way that you can visit and site behind Tor using

A great number of early applications will likely focus on bringing Internet (as we know it) content into Safenet. Photos, videos, personal backup data, Dropbox/Google Drive content etc… so I think the connections between the networks will be an important early part of SAFE’s success.

I would just throw out the fact that while we believe that the Internet is fundamentally broken (I define we as folks into distributed, secure networks), that sentiment is not shared universally. The Internet works as a communications, data storage, and commercial platform for billions of people. People will only reach for SAFE & SAFEapps if they offer better functionality than what is currently available, or if they come close to offering a superior experience, but can do so at a far lower cost. If SAFEapps exist in an island unto themselves and don’t reach across into the real Internet form the get-go, we’ll have another Freenet that can easily be lambasted by that awful taste of you know what.

I hear a lot of talk about how SAFE apps will replace certain things (like backups/storage), and make things much better, but I think links to the existing Internet need to be discussed in greater depth.

For example, let’s say I host a website with a large number of videos on the regular Internet. I would like to include something like this in the source of my site to encourage users running the MaidSafe service to download the files from each other instead of from my server:

<source type="video/mp4" src="myvideo.mp4" data-src-safe="safe://USERID/myvideo.mp4">

What do you guys think?


@Daniel I agree that to move beyond the SAFE as an alternative Dropbox stage we will need to make it a platform with better apps than exist elsewhere to a significant extent.

That’s very exciting go me, and to achieve this developers will need to see SAFE Platform as their opportunity. So it is important to appeal to developers, in order to have the apps that will appeal to users in the way you identify correctly as so crucial.

How to appeal to developers?

Well I guess some of the The Need for SAFE thread will certainly apply, but maybe we need a thread to provide a focus on what developers will need and what we can do to motivate them to build here. What do you think?


Yes, after the hangout yesterday, I suggested next one would be about application opportunities and ideas. I then discovered (remembered) I am in Amsterdam. I think we do need a meet about that though. There are huge opportunities.


Just a thought here but I wonder how games will be on the safe network. Well think about it for a moment. Right now The Elder Scrolls Online has a Megaserver that let’s all their players play together on the same server. They have amazing video like graphics, great music, aweosme storyline. That’s on the centralized server like system. Now what if you hosted a game on the safe network. Graphics, sound, the program, player data, the works. Since everything only needs one copy, since all transfers are done basically by sending marker bouys (more or less) and since things are all encrypted and anonymous and only open when they are used… THINK HOW MUCH STUFF YOU COULD LOAD AND HOW BLOODY FAST GAMES WOULD RUN COMPARITIVELY!!!

That would indeed be a DISTINCT benefit to the maidsafe system. Also imagine simulation games with extensive customization and user creation. If you’re generating a lot of content on the fly you want to save it right? And if it all saves automatically to the SAFE network and all runs super fast and can be distributed super easy that’s a distinct advantage. You wouldn’t be waiting hours, sometimes days, to download a game, you’d have it in seconds. No more worrying about losing your map archives (I had a couple hundred starcraft maps at one point. And after a bit of playing you can definitely develop a collection of maps on Starcraft 2, same can be said with FPS games and those maps are usually a hell of a lot bigger.), or character profiles, or mods or addons or whatever else. All your stuff stays with you on the SAFE network.

So yeah I’m definitely thinking the safe network would have DISTINCT benefits to the gaming industry and to gamers in general.

If games were made for and on the SAFE network I imagine we could do away with login credentials and just use your MPID. If it’s a comercial game then simply make it a requirement you pay to download it. You won’t have it (have access to it) unless you pay for it. After which point it’s yours. Or require the user pay a small fee in safecoins/bitcoins to access the game.

Come to think of it this would effectively eliminate piracy because the maidsafe system only registers one instance of the same file. If you are the content creator of $supergame and you state that in order to download your game you need to pay x amount in bitcoin or safecoin then maidsafe won’t allow anyone access to that file unless they pay x amount in bitcoin or safecoin. And since all that’s being transfered is the access privilages… Hey wait a tick… if user a and user b both have a music video and user a wants to charge people to download it but user b doesn’t who has the right to say who can see the music video since both have access to the same file? Who does the file belong to? If I’m sharing a datamap but all I’m sharing is locations to files how do I own my data? Sorry I’m getting really confused now.


If corporations are not people, how will they operate within SAFE?

It’s not clear to me, how any business can operate with the limitation of 1 Public/Private persona per human.

I can understand if an organization gets a SAFE seat as an ‘entity’ and that Public personas could occupy the org chart as humans.


How would businesses and corporations be managed on Maidsafe

I think this is probably a new topic but really interesting. What about companies with multiple buyers and sellers of goods but one entity that incorporates all these ids? How could we do this and should we do this? My builder sense is tingling…

How would businesses and corporations be managed on Maidsafe