SAFE Network Dev Update :safe: June 25, 2020

Beyond that though, surely rounding is quite reasonable and uncontroversial. Why should we need to make micro fractional calculations and not something that is rounded?

Into what real world shop would you go and pay beyond the second decimal point as pennies?.. no-one contests the round up/down or cares to query which it was.

That crypto can do micro payments, does not require that is does in all cases. Also, dust is pina for cleaning up old accounts.


What if there were two segments to a wallet, rounds and fractions. Nothing on the backend would change just the wallet UI and how people interact with it, not sure how it would impact farming or how that would be represented though.

You could buy round Safecoins and once it is unrounded by an operation such as upload, the rest is only visible in the fraction portion of the wallet, but is dedicated to future small cost/fractional operations. If you got say a farming payout that increases your fraction amount to a round number then that would be added to the round (default) portion of the wallet. Overall this would be completely unfamiliar territory, might be hard to keep track of funds or costs, maybe clunky? But perhaps more usable for the average bear. Just a thought.


Maybe we could dispense with fractional and decimal accounting altogether and just rely on plain English nomenclature using the metric prefixes:
1 microsafe = .000001 safecoin
1000 microsafes = .001 safecoin (1 millisafe)
10000 microsafes = .01 safecoin (1 centisafe)
100000 microsafes = .1 safecoin (1 decisafe)
1000000 mocrosafes = 1 safecoin
1 decasafe = ten safecoins
1 hectosafe = 100 safecoins
1 kilosafe = 1000 safecoins
1 megasafe = 1000000 safecoins

Too complicated? Most of the time, at least in the beginning, users would be working with a specific number of microsafes and that could be the default unit for most apps. The actual conversion would take place “under the hood” and users would be spared the agony of working with decimal places. The goal would be to simplify currency valuation issues for users, especially novice users. Am not sure if this suggestion accomplishes that or not. Might be worth consideration though.


Personally I think all that nonsense was too complicated for bitcoin… swapping from the highest unit (bitcoin) to the lowest unit (satoshis) was enough… all the variation of decimal places was overkill and confusing for the most part.


Yes, I like this idea. I think people will get used to crypto math overtime, but to get them started they could be using rounded numbers in the beginning for simplicity sake. Later they can delve deeper into decimal fractions.


Also a great suggestion. It is worth investigating indeed.

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Jim - it’s great that you are addressing these challenges as a UI designer, but given that these challenges apply to many areas of crypto, for wave 1, please do not feel the pressure for perfection - it is the enemy of good. Nevertheless, really interesting discussions and a good intellectual and design challenge.


Yeah, no worries, I’m not!

This is the MVE being shown off here, the minimum viable experience to get the network to float, and make us all happy.

So in this particular case it’s about making a widget that will be usable for quite a wide range of possibilities, as there are quite a lot of unknowns (and we’ll only understand more about them when we are live) and likely quite a lot of price turbulence in to begin with. Once things settle down, we can learn a lot and improve things greatly.

And it’s worth remembering, these kinds of interventions when using data will be the exception, not the rule, and will only surface when there is likely to be a significant spend… Those thresholds we can manage too, so perhaps the only time you’ll see it will be at a couple of decimal places.

And then on top of that there are plenty of solutions we can deploy after that, such as rounding settings, typography, subdivisions etc.

Imagine how exciting it will be to be having those kinds of challenges. Live network baby! Woot!


Given that even most people in Bitcoin don’t realize that it does not even exist as a unit and that a Microsoft makes an Explorer search using such phrases as ‘small’ or ‘huge’ we could introduce the creative terms of: ‘thimble’ or ‘bucket load’ in terms of data, and in terms of price: ‘Pipe of Pringles worth’ or even ‘if you have to ask, you can’t afford it’ as an option.

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Woop woop!! Thanks Jim and such a pleasure to see all your work - looking incredible - all the parts of the updates together. When I introduce friends to this project, I start with the screenshots that you are producing. That’s not of course to underestimate the work of the team working on the backend doing a fantastic job - just to those non-tech tech, it’s a great entry point. PS. Changed browser back to Edge, and the files worked!!!




Just going through the FIGMA UI again in-depth, amazing work! I love it more and more. Anyway, I have a question. The UI is telling me we can run 1 vault for each computer. Is this correct? Thanks


On the live network, I don’t believe so. As far as MVE I just don’t think there is management for multiple vaults or remote management. I think that comes later. But I’m not 100% on that.


Yeah, this is purely for the MVE purposes—what’s the quickest thing we could dom to get things up and running? It’s not a limitation of the Network.

You could happily spin up any number of vaults with the command line tools in addition if you wanted too.

Same goes for wallets too, just a single wallet to begin with, and then we’ll expand out to more nuanced and complex stories in further iterations.


I have always said that it would be good for the UI to have a setting that allows the person to see their coin balance as 2 or 3 or … 9 decimal places. The balance showing would be rounded down because its annoying in the least for it to show 1 coin but cannot spend 1 coin for a balance of 0.99999

Round up (not 5/4) for amounts owed for the same reason.

So people like us might choose 9 places but others might choose 2 places.


. . . and each app should be able to choose its own default number of decimal places.

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I would hope there is a area of ones account that holds some global parameters and preferred decimal places is there so then any APP will respect that unless there is another reason not to.

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Thank you for the heavy work team MaidSafe! Now is the most precious moment, so make great memories! :heart:

I add the translation into Bulgarian in the first post :dragon:


Looking great. Really like being able to see all the UX flows on the figma page.

Only recommendations I have are:

  • For the wallet transactions view is to show a total balance next to each delta. E.g.:
  • Also I’d say keep the amounts in a separate column from the text/details. e.g.:
  • Lastly, for the payment system to work properly I’d suggest allowing users to add a message to payments, to allow for reference numbers, explanations, reasons, reminders etc.

Nice work


Thanks man.

Yeah, there are a few things at work here… one is, in the first instance anyway, building from standard material components as much as possible, and re-using elements as much as we can across the designs. And the next is consistency across screens and app sections when it comes to the layout and placement of transactions details and that wallet balance bar at the bottom.

I’d actually considered a pull-left gesture to reveal the running balance… but I’ll have a ponder over the layout again.

Yeah, we discussed this at the end of last year. And while I agree it is highly desirable, it didn’t quite make the cut for the first tranche of work for MVE. It adds a significant amount of complexity, and is perhaps best suited to tie in with work on messaging generally. And I’d also argue it’s not essential for the payment system to function and be really useful, but definitely a worthy enhancement.