SAFE Network Dev Update - June 20, 2019

Patent search turned up 8 patents granted and 7 applications pending.

It may be good to have a giant centralized SAFE Network backup facility for the early days of launch, just in case it is hacked in the early days. I am thinking of training wheels for the SAFE Network. Would that be possible? I would not care as much about the value of SafeCoin as much as I would about securing the data.

I’m not sure how this would be possible, without centralisation baked in (as you point out).

Might be worth posting a new thread if you want to explore the ideas/questions/solutions around the early days of the network.

Lot of knowledge in this forum, but often it can get buried in the dev update threads.

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Ok I searched “david irvine maidsafe” seems a lot there. We have over 30 patents I don’t even remember the correct numbers, but they are in the UK, USA, India, Australia, China, Japan etc. I don’t have the time to search though. I hope you are more successful than your initial search. There is a ton of papers and patents though.


Searching for patents and papers is better with and

patents: Irvine Maidsafe
papers: Irvine Maidsafe

You can scrape a fine list directly from those links. If serious interest, I can access the originals.


Thank you @dirvine, @dask. I used USPTO search for US patents and applications and I would be surprised to find more in the US patent database. For non-US patents I used with various search terms but maybe there are better ones that I missed.

A dump of google search results contains a lot of irrelevant stuff so going through the results one by one is needed to get a quality list. I will check the links you proposed to see if I can find any additional patents (excluding mere translations, or duplicate entries such as patent application and granted patent matching that application.)

As for peer-reviewed papers, I have found one but by a third party. Again, a curated list would have been much easier. I don’t have much time either, and would rather spend time reading than searching.

The good thing is that we will have a list to refer to next time someone asks.

Edit 6/25: Completed USPTO and WIPO search: 5 unique patents granted, 3 applications pending, the rest published/disclosed.


After you have read all the papers could you let us know your views on the hackability of the network

I agree with a lot of this, but … nothing can categorically be said about the future relationship between MAID and BTC.

The MaidSafe Network could launch, prove wildly successful and generate huge excitement, while BTC could falter for whatever reason (e.g., critical bug, or due to a million other known and unknown potential threats). Probabilities aside, I think it’s impossible to say much of anything definite about what the future holds in this space.

There’s a parallel universe out there where Dentacoin becomes the world reserve currency. For the simple reason that we can’t prove that that can’t happen. It’s a slope of probability, with Dentacoin and Spankchain on one end, and Ethereum, MaidSafe, Cardano, IOTA, Factom … (pick your favorites) on the other.


Thx for the update Maidsafe devs.

Tomorrow i’m doing a SAFE network demo (or setting up the basic and let people figure out how it works). It doesn’t help if i show it, they got to try it out and give feedback if it makes sense.

The handson approach just works better for me.

Keep up the good work super ants.



ps. Great effort here. You always have to clean the data a bit, and this is a really nice resource.


It is a gargantuan job. The hackability will probably be very high simply because it is so hard to access detailed information about the design and because the system is so complex. There is practically no way a few experts can outsmart millions of hackers.

I hope I can at least start doing something about improving technical documentation.

The community will need to work hard to find ways to attack the system before it is launched. Some threads on this forum are discussing attacks and SafeNetwork incentive structures but this but it seems too little and rather late considering the long history of this project.

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The peer-reviewed paper behind the paywall, here is the full paper:!Ctw1iKDC!4kwZRE1H_wfxCGS9gsF21vqEBsUBSjDYB2PbhQ9d5R8


@piluso, Many thanks!!

For those interested - have you seen (or even read!?) the thesis of Paul Greig? I found it yesterday but have not read it yet. There are I believe two chapters about SAFE Network.


We sponsored his Phd FYI


I guessed so. That’s really a great investment.


I’m just back from “clueless consumer class” :sweat_smile:

@maidsafe people during my demo wondered why the vault/WHM is not integrated into the browser?

Generally they welcomed the SAFE Network, but that is only true if you put your money where your mouth is, so… Collectively they invested 700 euro’s in bitcoin’s for Maidsafecoin. Recently I’ve started to create brainwallet out of euro bills:

For example I get someone to invest 5 euro’s and use E00131101365 as brainwallet (don’t be naive to think that this is an actual brainwallet) to send their Maidsafecoins to. They also take a picture of the euro bill on their phone as backup and store it in the cloud. Because I don’t expose them to an exchange, I think they’re less likely to exchange their Maidsafecoins.

Nevertheless keep up the good work Maidsafe, they really got exited (registering a pubID and uploading a file without a company) about this permissionless playground.

P.s. next time I’ll try to record or make pictures (for this first time I just focused on the ui/ux). Tired, got to start :sleeping:


people during my demo wondered why the vault/WHM is not integrated into the browser?

You mean like this idea, @19eddyjohn75 ?: ? Or something else…?


Hi @joshuef i gave my demo in v13 of SAFE Browser and thats exactly what they wanted. Absolutely blown away when i saw the Youtube clip, this imho is how it suppose to work. You guys did an incredible work.

:sweat_smile:sorry for pushing it here… if Vaults + a wallet was in the browser :sweat_smile:(makes me sad that i don’t got the budget, to let some one code it, even better would be if a community member who can code did it).

Keep up the great work superants we’re close, so close.



I think it’s a mistake to assume that the best place for things like wallets and vaults is in the Browser.

For one, we want to make it sure easy to start up a vault, and have it running in the background doing it’s thing, with minimum fuss. You might want to do this on a multitude of devices and often you might want this on a device that isn’t tasked with day to day jobs like browsing. There’d also be questions around quitting/restarting the browser, or updating it and what that would mean for the continuity of running the vault. In interaction design terms we’d call a vault more of a Daemonic application, with some transient functions, whereas the browser is a sovereign application (demanding most, or all of the users attention). If we start sticking these things together we could end up with a less that ideal experience.

And regarding wallets, there is a similar conundrum. What a wallet app will be tasked with lead it to be more of a transient application, coming in an out of view for the user when required, and its functions will support use of the network across a range of different apps, not just the browser.

It’s worthwhile remembering that the browser is only one way of interacting with the network. For some users, they may have no need for a browser at all. For example if they are using a native application, like a chat app.

And of course, I can happily use the Network without the need for an account, or a wallet, or a vault, I can just browse, so it seems a bit unnecessary to have all that in the browser.

I think it’s best to think of Safe like a mini OS within an OS: an ecosystem. It’s useful for the user to have modularity. If someone makes a really great wallet app, or even better vault UI, then great! The user can install it, and reap the benefits. But if we build it all into the browser, it will get more and more bloated, and the end user may not be able to swap things in and out so easily.

That’s not to say there won’t be UI elements of things like wallets appearing in the browser, but it’d be modular, and context specific (e.g. When I’m shopping at a site, I want to see my running total in a shopping cart, against the balance of my wallet) rather than all of the possible functions of a wallet baked in.


Great post and this mirrors my opinion. I’m glad this project is in such safe hands! :slight_smile: