SAFE Network Dev Update - December 5, 2019

Not to be cheeky, but if you come here to read the weekly dev update, don’t be surprised if you get developers updating you on what they have been working on over the past week. :grin:

Absolutely. Point taken. And I’am fully aware of this. (Must feel really hard to be in Davids position to manage this balance)

So the plan hasn’t really changed, but that’s why we have to keep on looking at these things when they come up, naming them, defining them, and moving on together.

I know that the grand plan hasn’t changed. Just wanted to verbalize my feelings. Dev updates feels like reviewing merge requests with endless of discussion/comments. Not getting it merged while the master is shifting away.

(btw. i’am rather a fan of feature flags -> but this has nothing to do with the above)

MVP = small user base of super nerds like @7ukasz 's allusion to how some trucks would at least use the roads with no gas stations. Probably not much bigger then how many super nerds we already have following the project though.

MVE = An ever growing user base as people tell their neighbor to check it out, without fear it might not be user friendly enough for them.


super nerds like @7ukasz 's allusion to how some trucks

Thanks for the compliment. But actually I’am just a regular guy. Rather Maidsafe-Team are the super nerds. Respect for that. No compromise!
(The opportunist in me makes me say things like the last part of my first comment, sorry.)


oh super nerds are like the cool kids these days lol. I wish I was someone you could just give a command line interface and I would hack that like the matrix!

MVE is for non techos like me without which, arguably, Safenet severely restricts if not strangles it’s market. Absolutely necessary as long as launch date is not blown out (too much)

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MVE is a tricky one. You don’t need to have it to prove the network works, but you need it if you want people to actually use the network. So it’s in a weird sorta need-it dont-need-it space. The excellent UX is what got me into this project in the first place, then the technology underpinning kept me hooked, so I’d say MVE is very much needed if budget allows it without risking the MVP.


It certainly does, I think like this, the mvp (network) i super boring and confusing for folk. Even though it’s 100% necessary. The MVE though is what makes them come to the party and we need folk at the party.

There is a defo split in dev where backend can be focused on maths and interesting consensus stuff, however it does not matter if there are no users. Bitcoin seems to prove you don’t really need a great UX, but I suspect if we have a great UX then it changes the game. I have always though Jim was key here, more so in many cases than the deep maths thinking. We will see though. don’t tell him though, now is not the time for pay rises :smiley: :smiley:


Super update! This team continues to impress with both the progress made and the great decision making. Having something of a parallel path to both MVP and then quickly (or simultaneously?) MVE is essential I think to maximize getting the word out. It combines the massive technical achievement with the hands-on, visual impact of the simple interface that SHOWS it works. Can’t overstate the power of that. Keep up the excellent work!


@maidsafe thanks for the clarification on MVP/MVE. Since people have been using those terms a lot lately, I’ve been looking for a clear definition, so this helps.


This is a massive amount of finished and pushed work for a team this size in a week. You all should feel proud of what you are accomplishing.


I think it would be a lot easier if the roadmap page were a real accessible roadmap instead of a fancy alternative Dev Update. The part of this update that I find exciting is that over the next week, they’ll be defining the ‘MVE’, which implies a clearly-defined end in sight, and the possibility of a better roadmap.


Very smart, brilliant! I’m so glad you’re thinking like this. Simplicity and Useability are key to mass adoption. BTC is still too complicated to use for most people. Smart, simple UX will set safenet apart from other crypto projects. Great Update team!


Cheeky :smile: in due course. I’m sure you have but I definitely sense Jim is in it for more than just the money and fame. A man of principle. Jim will be known as one of the greats in this space imo.


Keep on marching. Probably no Fleming Christmas present, but maybe 2020 can be the year for some serious takeoff in deliveries and milestones knocking out one by one.

Also looking forward to when we get to do another community test run of something, much like when we did that crust connection test and you had that UI to look at results. Maybe that can be reproduced come flemming time and junk data can be passed between nodes and multi sections and consensus reached via parsec with lots of debug logs and things saved in the UI to help yall triage any potential edge cases/issues that arise from a larger scale test.


I’ve been reeading “beta” and MVP/MVE in here. Not to mention you dropped something about releasing vaults etc. So does this all mean we’re getting close to a beta release/launch date of some kind? A workable SAFE network of some kind? That would kind of be an awesome Christmas present and a good way to start off 2020.


We are still following the roadmap. vaults phase 2/3/4 -> Fleming -> Maxwell -> Beta .We are targeting phase 2 right now. Big difference is we are using 100% production code in these phases where possible. Rather than small projects with mock code to mock remaining work we are putting all code in place and iterate the full vault codebase. Doing that decreases periods between releases as we are not coding side streets to then remove them.

In essence,
Phase 2a : we will have a small section of only elders (a few nodes) and test that.
phase 2b : We will then add more nodes to create a large section.
phase 3: Add farming algorithm (this may happen in parallel with above)
phase 4: Add more nodes to allow the network to split (sharding)

All that works, we have Fleming.
Add in upgrades and possibly async/await code and we have Maxwell.
all that works, we are in Beta :wink:


Thanks, David. That really sums it up.


I apologize if this is on a roadmap, I certainly got confused by some of the name changes and such. Does safecoin get implemented before beta or in congruence with it? Thank you.

So there are essentially 4 major tests left before the network hits beta. Awesome. From what I understand most of the elder node code is already in place so getting those up shouldn’t take too long right? Just trying to guess at an ETA here and yeah I know slow and steady wins the race but can’t help but be eager to get a real live SAFE network.

I suspect that there will be a test safecoin in Maxwell … and then real one in beta. It won’t be a full network without a real safecoin.

Me too! But I won’t hold my breath. I don’t want to be a downer, but suspect Maxwell will take some time for testing as everyone will want to make sure the network is solid before launching with real safecoin – or whatever the new coin of the realm will be called.

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