SAFE Network Dev Update - August 16, 2018


Why would key personnel be leaving the SAFE Network project?

Have others been leaving also?


I’d say all are key personal. Why do you think he is especially key. Was he a head of a department?

Every enterprise running for a long time has to expect staff to move onto other areas and plan for it. Maidsafe has seen a few over the years move on, but by no means a large number.

As to anyone else? Well have you heard of any? We seem to be told whenever there is someone leaving.


Yeah same as Andreas Fackler, Andrew Cann just wanted to go do something else for awhile. Both huge assets that made great contributions to the code but departing was amicable.


hi team, shouldnt the london meeting be considered to be resheduled ? as i can see there is a very small interest right now. :confused:


Not good news and not good for Maidsafe. This can be framed as a “moving on” but IMO why would they move on from this opportunity? So close?

There is a shortage of brainpower and departures are a troubling sign for Maidsafe. Getting developers is tough enough, keeping them is tougher it appears. Maidsafe would only chose first-class individuals to work with and those types would leave honorably and not reveal anything the least bit negative.

Don’t pretend this is fine. This is not fine.

Let’s hope they can replace those leaving.


How is that? The team is constantly growing and they have open positions for Rust devs currently. The team last I knew was about 33 so I suppose around 32 now. That’s quite a few employees imo.

Besides they have @povilasb and @ustulation working in Crust most of the time and they are badasses. We’re covered. Down one badass but Maidsafe has a history of hiring new badasses.


My opinion here and obviously disagreeing. Sorry if I sound harsh, not meant to be though.

Come on that is so much …

I’ve worked in development teams in the past and this is normal to happen.

Honestly that talk sounds like joining (being in) a movement rather than working for a company, where leaving means you are some sort of traitor or the movement is falling apart.

This is normal to happen, no matter how the leaving is framed, it is a company after all and not some scam group or political movement or religion where anyone who leaves means there are problems.

Making a mountain out of a normal part of business. If there was someone leaving every month then maybe, but how long since someone else left? And the one before that. Oh is there any more?

Ummm have you read the ones they are employing being mention every so often?

I really do not understand the paranoia over one person leaving.

If you list the few who have left and when they left then you’ll see that its not an issue. Then as @Nigel says the dev team is growing and if you compare it to last year then its quite a number who have joined and one or two who have left.


hey @starsmick, no worries, the meetup’s definitely still going ahead. No argument that the bigger the crowd the better at these things. But (my approach at least is) let’s build, rather than wait for the perfect time. Every single time one of us stands up to speak about the Network and what it represents, we have the opportunity to spread the word and, hopefully, to either change someone’s mind or give further context that helps to build the message. And the process works both ways (from, and to, the speaker). I think in the older days, when events were live, unrecorded and gated, the concerns would have been more valid. These days, with video recordings and social media conversations increase reach hugely as well of course. Plus - I think the more practice we get (as a community) on our feet talking and explaining the SAFE Network the better. Viewed over the longer term, even one person turning up is an opportunity to learn for all involved. So - long story, short - it’s on :smile:


Well said.

24 characters.


No problem here @neo. Thanks.

The team is not big enough for the task. IMO The project has not garnered the attention or the following to move it as fast as it needs to move to stay ahead of the relevancy curve.

I’m addressing the response to one developer leaving and I don’t buy the reason. Of course he won’t slam the team when he leaves or diss the company. He shouldn’t. But for a developer to leave before the launch and to be part of this revolution is concerning to me.

Too many here spin everything to be acceptable. The team was not put on the website. That was not acceptable IMO and leaves room for concern.

I’m not suggesting Maidsafe will fail.

the kowtowing is too much sometimes


The team was not put on the website. That was not acceptable IMO and leaves room for concern.

Is this what you’re referring to not existing?


I hope you finished the book by now :wink:


What a beautiful group of people. :hugs:

And they DO exist!


It’s just that with SAFE Network being conceived as the biggest thing since the Internet itself, it’s hard to conceive of anyone wanting to leave this for other projects…

Makes me wonder if either it’s not as big as it is in my mind or that progress is stalling.

I see no talk of beta releases anymore, that’s another thing.


I’ve worked for small businesses all my life. I’ve seen people come and go amicably all the time.

Some people realise they’ve rather work on something else. Nothing wrong with what they’re doing, but they can do something more to their liking elsewhere.

Others have built up a fantastic tool chest of skills and get head hunted with an offer they can’t refuse. I don’t know how some people here are set financially, but providing for my family comes first and if someone was going to give me a 25% raise that my current employer (great friend and boss at a job I enjoy) couldn’t match, I would have to think very long and hard about taking it.

Others simply just get burned out from a place. Jaded. Whatever term you want to use. Just need a change of scenery.

All of this to say there a lot of reasons one might leave a good job at a good company that does not involve HR, PR, company, or work itself related issues.


Nope. It doesn’t exist here. The new official website? Or?

Btw… That is a great representation of the team on the site you refer but it’s not where it’s supposed to be.

Edit: I’ll add that the least important comment I made was addressed here. Leading to more kowtow. Lol.

I’m a fan, but have concerns. Maybe take a shot at addressing them.


I’m a superfan of MaidSafe, believe in them, trust them and just know by heart from having met them and seen and followed them a long time, that they are as rock solid and ethically prominent as any bunch of ordinary and extraordinary people can be.

I always read your posts @BIGbtc and think of the time when I started reading more on the forum, researching on decentralised exchange implementations on SAFENetwork.

There was a topic by a couple of guys that since long are thrown on the garbage pile of history. But at that time it was all new and shiny, and everyone was believing these guys. You didn’t fall that easy, and with your regular straight approach just required more of them, and finally made a very good estimation of their worth when they didn’t respond satisfactory to your questions.
Many people said you were too negative, too critical. Almost booing.

A long time after, the guys of that project were outed for the bunch of incompetent fools they were (as to not say scammers), and it turned out you’d seen that all along.
To me that is one hell of a good example of that pain in the ass voice being valuable.

Now, I am not saying that means you are always right in your hard critical thinking (who is?), and I hope everyone reading this understands fully that no comparison what so ever is being made between those guys and MaidSafe now that I bring them up… (!). (Really, don’t skip reading and understanding that part I just wrote.)


I think it is extremely important with that crass critical view along side everything else. I believe it to have a lot of value, always. It needs to be balanced, but not ignored, it has its place.

The final word is never said, we always express our views in a constant state of biased or anemic
availability of information, and apply our imperfect frameworks of thinking on it.
And then we do that together with others, and they and we (hopefully) balance our understanding one bit more every time.

EDIT: I would expect of you to have concerns, be hard, and sometimes (overly?) critical.
I don’t think it is always important because you would necessarily be right, or even be doing good in all senses by doing so. No, to me it is just that rational critical voice that I personally feel is very important. There is no lack of ill willed critique, and we do not need more of it, but I don’t see yours as such.
EDIT2: It’s more that we can count on you immediately speaking up, turning stones. We have to balance that by zooming out and see the tea cup and so on, but there’s an important job being done there IMO. Very seldom appreciated, very often mistaken for I’ll will.
And probably 99 out of 100 times MaidSafe do know the problem (or non-problem) and can just sigh at the repetition, divert some more important time to set things straight (communicating with the rest, it is not entirely a waste). But still, I always look at myself and my projects with those eyes, and am happy when good intentioned harsh people also do it for me.

Well, I just took the opportunity now to say this, since I think about it basically every time I read your stuff :sweat_smile:


I addressed the most factual of your concerns, not the most important one :slight_smile: That was me trying to avoid having to draft a lengthy response :stuck_out_tongue:

That is a great representation of the team on the site you refer but it’s not where it’s supposed to be is a site about the SAFE Network, its mission etc. is the company website. The reason there is some distance between both is because Maidsafe the company does not own the SAFE Network: we are just its current maintainers. The SAFE Network is for everyone, and developed in the open so that everyone can contribute. That is the vision, and that is what we are trying to convey with our branding/website hierarchy.

I’m a fan, but have concerns. Maybe take a shot at addressing them.

Sure. I can share my opinion on your concerns. I don’t know that I will change your mind, but I can tell you how I see things.

In any company, a bit of churn is a normal process. High churn is worrying because it means you may be loosing important talent. Low churn is unavoidable: people have different ambitions, their situation change, etc.
From my experience working at Maidsafe, it’s a great place to work: everyone is involved in the important decisions. The co-workers are absolutely brilliant. The project is revolutionary (oh, btw, I’m also a fan and have been since long before joining :wink: ). Our progress is palpable. It can feel slow to non-devs, especially if you got used to the claimed pace of some projects in the “crypto-space”; but for a real engineer working on a real product, I find that the teams are working at high velocity. Of course, we get time estimates off-the-mark, because it’s very comon, but when you look back 1 month, 3 months, 6 months, a year; you can really appreciate the progress. All to say, I find Maidsafe to be a very healthy company.

The team is not big enough for the task. IMO

We could do with more talent; and we actually have 2 open positions just in the backend at the moment, but we are getting things done and inching closer to a full product every day. Finding talent is not an instant thing though, so building up the team is a slow process; but it is happening. Just compare the number of employees to what we were a year ago (well, they: I’m a new recruit too :wink:)

The project has not garnered the attention or the following to move it as fast as it needs to move to stay ahead of the relevancy curve

For the attention thing, our marketing team has grown and is growing and I feel are doing a great job at tackling many avenues for “garnering attention”. I think there is a delay between people doing the work and the effects of the work being measurable. For instance, Maidsafe will have at least 5 public in person events I can think of in the next two months, and that’s without counting the video that will be released etc. A lot of that work was already done, but before you can tell that X people now learnt about Maidsafe and told their friends and joined the forum etc., there will be a long period of the word spreading etc. Bottom line: everyone (marketing, backend, frontend etc.) is working hard and if you don’t see the effects right now; with a bit more patience, you may be able to see them soon enough.

About the “staying ahead of the relevancy curve”, I can see your point and I don’t want to be complacent, but my personal assessment is that we are far ahead of anything in the space we are targeting: a freedom focused internet accessible to everyone. If you compare our marketed features to their marketed features, it may look like a bit of a draw; but if you look at the actual product that’s already been released: code, whitepapers etc. you will notice that the SAFE Network is an extremely sophisticated and robust product of which a large portion is already built and usable. I’m not really bragging here: I’m appreciating the hard work put by everyone in the company long before I joined. They came up with extremely elegant solutions to most of the problems we have to overcome and we are on our way to implementing them all.

Of course, all of this is just my own opinions and I obviously have a positive bias towards Maidsafe, but since you asked, that’s me trying to address your concerns. My 2 cents: you’re creating a storm in a tea cup :tea: :wink:


I’ll frame this…


Great post.

Technology itself will not make a business thrive. There are so many moving parts. Some of these crucial moving parts, crucial to staying ahead of the curve, are still not mature IMO.