SAFE Network and Illegal Content

I think we need this as an app but not built into the protocol. I.e. built into safe browser. 99.99% of people want nothing to do with that stuff, a flagging system built into the browser could help protect users from it. That could further be extended as some sort of parental control too if wanted to stop minors visiting adult sites. That way people can choose to use a censored or unlimited browser, it’ll be their choice.

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This is true. Look at the “manufacturing errors” that provided the possibility of back door access to your machine in the news this year.

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I would point out that right now in Germany copyright violation carpetbaggers (usually German law firms scenting a quick buck or Euro) are going after users of torrents who are uploading/downloading copyrighted video/film content and sending the uploaders/downloaders copyright violation demands. This has been a lucrative moneymaking niche there for years. The way they do it is through accessing ISP user logfiles.

Presumably the same kind of approach could be used for the SAFE network.

There will be no such log files, there would be no way to ask for them, and they couldn’t contain anything useful to start with.

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As @JoeSmithJr says ISP log files are meaningless for analysing, except to say you’ve been connecting to a lot of people. Protocol usage is not illegal be it bittorrent protocols or NNTP or safe

Also they do not use ISP log files as such. They join the bittorrent network as a seeder and look at who is joining their computer requesting the content. Then they ask the ISP who belongs to that IP address. No ISP userlog files, just the ISP IP address allocations

Since SAFE doesn’t work that way. A legal shark cannot load the content onto their machine and wait for people to connect to their machine. SAFE doesn’t work like that

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I didn’t even touch on this one. It’s been demonstrated years ago that most of those warnings are sent based on IP addresses collected from bittorrent trackers without verifying there is an active client behind that IP address. At the same time, anybody can register any IP address for a torrent (in other words, anybody can frame you) so an IP address on that list means (or, should mean) nothing unless they can show proof that content could be downloaded from a bittorrent client behind that address.

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Immutable public ledgers provide a tool for getting there. I explain one simple but comprehensive approach is in the book “Blockchain Faith,” available everywhere. Creative Commons licensed, ask me for a free PDF and feel free to share.

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Hi @jjaech, the SAFE Network does not use blockchain and have not any ledgers, it uses Close group consensus. I recommend you to read: https://primer.safenetwork.org/

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Thank you Dimitar. I understand that SAFE Network does not use blockchain but believe it is still intended to provide a permanent record in a public data system. Once information is recorded in a SAFE Network can the author or anyone else (absent an attack by >1/3 malicious nodes) delete it? Do I misunderstand?

In my book, I use “blockchain” as a buzzword to signify an immutable aspect of the record keeping protocol, so apologies for using it here in a loose sense without explanation.
-Jonny

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If you haven’t already, you might want to take a read of the Network Fundamentals, should help give a bit of context. Number 8 covers this particular point.

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Looking at the Network Fundamentals, one of them is that i should be able to log onto any computer, access the SAFE network and then log off without any trace of what I did online being left there.

Does that mean that i could access the clearnet, a site like showbox for example, download a copyrighted movie, upload it to SAFE network and it would be available forever without anyone knowing it was me?

Yes/No answers only please!

Yes.

But even though you said just yes or no that doesn’t mean there aren’t some caveats.

As long as what ever Public Name/WebID/identity you use does not reflect your true identity eg your actual name.

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So no. You cannot be certain they don’t know. They could know it was you, because you did this step.

If you ripped a DVD and uploaded that then Yes they would not know it was you.

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Doesn’t a computer attach metadata, like EXIF data on a JPG to a file ripped from DVD?

If your ripper did that. just don’t use that ripper

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These two recent conversations got me thinking about “Organised FUD”(*). The use of narratives to discredit legitimate compeditors.

When the Safe Network becomes successful it will attract powerful enemies with the financial incentive to discredit it and the access to push those narratives into the mainstream. The unfortunate inevitability of illegal content being hosted will be used to attack and discredit the Safe Networks purpose. The Freenet Project has long suffered this fate, even using their about page to try and defend the ideals of the project. The founder fled the US (in 2003!) out of fear for his safety from the authorities.

The Maidsafe foundation will come under fire with the same manner and methods. How to prepare for the negative media narrative to come? Setup a savvy media desk with experience discerning FUD from facts, bad self interested media actors serving narrative of little substance from the good? Methods to deliver consistent message on why the Safe Network is important and worth existing despite the few bad actors using it to host questionable content? Or just ignore it all and wing it… which may just lead to the same fate: Free-Net == child porn in the public consciousness. Hopefully there are lessons to be learned from those projects that have gone before.

(*) Think! Organised FUD series of posts investigating and exposing the methods and connections of some well known troll farms such as Bitfinexed, used to discredit legitimate operations.

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I’m not convinced that is the reason why Freenet hasn’t caught on. BitTorrent and Tor seem to have survived that mud slinging pretty well too.

Freenet has a number of limitations which SAFENetwork seeks to address, including incentives, private data, self healing, high anonymity, etc. We are all waiting to find out whether maidsafe achieves it.

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BitTorrent is not private in any way so probably does not count. Tor has a pretty active press department so perhaps that is partly how they keep their reputation in order. However there is increasing evidence that there are more powerful players protecting Tor’s status for national security and law enforcement reasons.

SAFENetwork being technically superior and successful may be reason for more unwanted negative press, not less.

MaidSafe is private, but the Safe Network won’t be, like BitTorrent (the protocol).
That’s one of the main points of this network.