SAFE Network a True Free Market System?

Never in the history of humanity have we ever had a true free market system. Every time we have come close to one we always manage to muck it up. Will the SAFE network’s built in Safecoin ecosystem finally usher in a true free market system, or will humans so how manage to muck it up again?


Actually safecoin isn’t since it’s hardcoded to pay developers a percentage. Not that I don’t think devs shouldn’t get paid but rather I’m pointing out that that in itself is pretty much a form of taxation as it’s not voluntary. Still it’s better than having governments run things and have the populace pay for things like fake lakes for instance…

You don’t have to use safe net though, so it is more of a subscription cost than a tax.

As it is open source, there is nothing to stop someone creating an identical network without the fee.


You mean a true level playing field? We’ve never had that for very long. But we’ve had the truly unfettered free market a couple of times and in one case it lead to possibly the darkest period of human history and in the second case both world wars. The unfettered market is a free fall to the bottom where suppliers run the world.

I am convinced that the market will be free enough that folks like Warren will hate it. :wink:

Really unless you remove all government subsidies markets aren’t really free-- And MaidSAFE will hopefully not exist in a vacuum – therefore it will provide the opportunity for a free market within a context of prices that are already Monkeyed with.

People will likely make a lot of profit arbitraging against taxes and subsidies on stuff like cigarrettes and liquor… Where some states have high taxes and others don’t . Also green technologies that are heavily subsidized certain places, and not much in others… Anonymity and smart contracts will make these kind of tax evasions easy and safe.


There will still be gov’t subsidies. Remember the gov’t can subsidize a business or person in fiat, that fiat can then be converted to safecoin and then spent on the safecoin market. So I don’t think we’ll avoid subsidies entirely.

We’re certainly hoping that by releasing a network free of human involvement we should at least get very close to a free market system that has no obvious way to be manipulated. Whether it is possible to get to a completely free and open market I’m not sure.

I also don’t see the 5% fee is a tax, we won’t put anyone in prison for not paying, just don’t use the network or fork it an run an alternative as others have suggested. We are also encouraging, through pods, competition on the 5% so even core development will take advantage of a free and open market.



I thought the figure was 10% for devs. @N1ckLambert do you have a breakdown, and any more detail on how Safecoin rewards are allocated?

We have farming fairly well detailed, but content and app rewards, I’m not sure I understand what the main ideas still under consideration are. I’ve not wanted to interrupt David about this, but wonder if you can tell us what the thinking is at this point.

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My understanding is that safecoin will be distributed as follows:

5% core dev
5% existing equity shareholders
10% app builders
10% crowdsale
70% farmers

I don’t yet have specifics on the allocation process yet although all will become clear during the implementation of test safecoin during the next test net. I think at this stage we will also be able to establish how the network judges use of an app, this is something I’m currently unclear about. So, I’m afraid I don’t have a whole lot more to share with you at this point, however this is something that I believe will evolve rapidly as we start to focus our attention on it.

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I think I understand how the farmer, app builder and core dev rewards are worked out algorithmically as Safecoin are produced and that 10% has already been issued via the crowdsale. This just leaves the 5% equity shareholders, which I believe are rewarded via a different process…or not, I’m not sure, but could this be explained if different?

Tax evasion will never be safe as long as there are states.

The thing is that the only place where the state is a meaningful factor is where it is already an active party to the interchange–e.g., W-2s, 1090s, sales tax license requirement to get a permit to do business,vehicle taxes via license and registration, etc.

How many people pay sales tax or income tax on proceeds from garage sales, craigslist, ANY cash business that individuals do, etc.? SAFE will expand the possible zone of excluding the state from involvement, reporting, tracking, etc.

The existence of the state resides in the minds of people. When more and more options which exclude the state become available, choice of how they think becomes more possible.

Many states intentionally lower taxes to encourage arbitrage… They want as much of their neighbor’s business as possible.

Kinda like Bitcoin – It isn’t likely to replace Fiat currency… But it is likely to put a leash on how far the central banks can go. Open markets will do the same for taxation…

Agreed for the short term, though Fiat’s days are numbered, without question, I think.

And what makes the difference with Bitcoin (and other blockchain cryptos), and even more for Safecoin, is that it CANNOT be taken without the owners consent (unless trusted to a counterparty or handled insecurely). They also cannot steal value directly by “printing” more arbitrarily (the definition of “fiat”).

If we can save ability to interconnect privately via the internet (by SAFE and other means) the ability of a small number to keep the rest “in line” will erode. Individual economic and social choices will continue to be more and more influenced by the creators of true wealth–the individual, and the groups that individuals empower freely.

That’s the true free market.


My understanding of modern Fiat: that which is accepted by the government for the payment of taxes.

Rogoff on negative rates, paper currency and Bitcoin

The government would continue to garner seigniorage revenues from the underground economy and the problem of the zero bound on nominal interest rates would be effectively eliminated. That said, it is far from clear that the government can credibly issue a fully anonymous electronic currency and even if it could, anonymous electronic fiat money has all the drawbacks of an anonymous paper currency in facilitating tax evasion and illegal activity

Is Bitcoin a trial balloon for a fully traceable electronic currency…but first the banks?

Banks need the blockchain

Peter Kirby, the president of Factom, leads a group of developers that is working to build a layer of secure data on top of the bitcoin blockchain. He believes the technology can solve a host of challenges facing the financial industry, all built on the blockchain.

“It allows us to write a permanent system of record of basically anything, and it’s stored in a distributed way, with ten thousand different nodes protecting it. So, of course, everyone is really excited about all the opportunities to develop on top of it,” Kirby says in an introductory video on the Factom website. “One of the projects that we recently did is we partnered with Omni Wallet and secured, literally, every transaction they’ve ever done with a single hash and we put that hash in the blockchain. That’s proof-of-existence.”

Why is online anonymity a bad thing from a governments perspective. Is it terrorism, pedophilia or maybe the inability to collect taxes.

That’s been at the back of my mind for a while, the idea that govt’s want rid of cash/anonymous transactions. Without need to don any tin-foil hats, whether or not they were involved at the inception, it’s potential can surely not have passed them by. I also think the relationship of banks/finance/Corporations and Govt is one where Govt is toothless, held hostage, bribed and coerced. I think Govt would be glad with an alternative electronic currency tbh.

Yeah and those race to the bottom states become like those useless republican hand out welfare states that beg for federal hand outs but still cant provide what even a healthy state could for its constituents- basket cases.

Warren, if you are going to throw stuff like that out, you need to be specific. Which states are you talking about?

They aren’t racing to the bottom if the are taking all of the money the neighboring states where going to take away anyway. It is a net benefit to them.

A much, much, much higher percentage of government (and those behind it) are involved in terrorism and pedophilia than the general population. So I’m betting on inability to determine and collect extortion money, I mean, taxes.

That’s why the SAFE network and safecoin (and any other anonymous digital currency) are the next evolution that keep ahead of the curve.

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