I understand where you are coming from, and if I were to reply I’d feel as I’m repeating myself. The world needs the competition, we need the Myspaces vs the Facebooks, the Mac vs Win, etc, all products speak to people differently and the process makes them all stronger.
Yes the same entity holding the sale, the SAFE-FS SP held by me. Company structure may be changed in the future but currently is a sole prop
Yes the majority of us still operates on the clearnet currently and this is why the clause exists in our terms that these documents can and will be updated when new information / methods are required.
When a SAFE solution for this is feasible, it will be implemented and documented. We are also looking into creating scripts that can automate most if not all of this
Yes very much so. All of our developers work on a per-deliverable basis, and are not hourly employees. This has proven extremely efficient and has allowed us to reach goals such as the App Store POC and website for a mere $200 total (explained in the update) and these developments have been costed out with those who we are looking to work with. We have a top pick for each position–most often is a developer we have worked with previously–and if they later decide not to complete the task at our cost then we have several others for each position ready to complete it. This gives us great confidence our goals can be reached with the budget we have planned
Why do you want to put so much effort on having the coin on multiple exchanges?
What is your unique selling point? (what do you offer that others won’t?)
I was looking on https://wgallo3.github.io/safe-fs/# but I couldn’t find anything on how you’re going to do create the file system itself or what the approach is, can you point me to it?
Did you do any research on:
Upon owning these SFSC, you are entitled to a share in the Safecoin profits (dividends) at every dividend Announcement (as described in the “App Store Safecoin Profit Delivery” document, and the right to vote in official issues raised.
In other words: is this legal? There have been other projects in bitcoin world who tried to figure this out but I believe they ended up spending all their money on researching the possibility alone.
This sounds like it would likely require registration as a security (for investors in the US at least) and would have to do filings and have the investors meet certain requirements to purchase “shares” to be legit…
Every App sale that has existed on this forum has had both long-term and short-term supporters, and regardless of people’s feelings on either, both have been important in getting these Apps funded and off the ground. We have listened to the investors of our previous sale, and of the other crowdsales, which has shown us that some supporters wish to be able to trade their crowdsale coins on exchanges.
All types of investors here are equally important in getting these Apps funded and created, and we feel that making the effort to get this coin listed is an important way to repay those who are supporting the production of SAFE-FS.
We haven’t released our code, but the running clearnet version is available for you to use at mockup.safe-fs.io and the projected costs for building the SAFE version of the web app and the later versions have bee released here. It is still quite early for the project and we are not releasing all of our code or blueprints before we are able to build them on SAFE to secure the income streams for our investors. There are also many unknowns at this stage about the SAFE Network and functioning in general, as I’m sure you are aware if you ask MaidSafe about certain parts of the network. As you are reminded every week, even SAFE Network development is in a constant state of evolution, so asking us to deliver detailed descriptions of every aspect of what the finalized codebase will look like is also unrealistic at this point
All profits generated and distributed are issued purely in SafeCoin, and there have been no legal rulings on SafeCoin in any jurisdiction in the world as of yet. The voting rights and SafeCoin Profit Delivery program are described in more detail in the documents if you need it
Also thank you everyone for the interest in the mockup and there have been many more images uploaded and approved, that can now be viewed and searched for on the page!
You should definitely look more into that. Legislation didn’t concern Bitcoin only. There have been numerous rulings on digital money/virtual currencies which will affect both Safecoin and SFSC. Also the fact that you talk about dividends as @Melvin pointed out makes your reward programme potentially liable to persecution. I think you will be on or closer to the safe side if you manage to not actively intervene in this process (a smart contract which automatically distributes rewards is probably the best solution?)
[quote=“whiteoutmashups, post:71, topic:10024”]
There are also many unknowns at this stage about the SAFE Network and functioning in general, as I’m sure you are aware if you ask MaidSafe about certain parts of the network. As you are reminded every week, even SAFE Network development is in a constant state of evolution, so asking us to deliver detailed descriptions of every aspect of what the finalized codebase will look like is also unrealistic at this point, @Melvin [/quote]
Because there are many unknowns at this stage about the SAFE Network I wonder why you promise ‘dividend’ while you have no other idea than guessing how much that potentially can be. Will it be 1/0,1/0,01/0,001/0,0001 cent per GET? Nobody knows, and are they even sure they’re going to use GETs to measure the Safecoin reward?
Please don’t think I’m asking this, I’m just curious to read and see more about what the approach is
Not sure if that will hold in court it’s just something I want to mention here because like I’ve said before, I’ve seen projects go down because of this and it would be a pity if you can’t continue with the project because of a legal thing that hasn’t been researched on forehand.
Yes we have been looking into possibilities there, even simple software or scripts that can check balances and issue coins. This is definitely a solution.
Another option is having the investors issue the coins themselves with a web portal where they enter their Profit Claim ahead of time and if it’s verified by the system to be correct, they are registered and the profits will be delivered. This could be a part of the SAFE version of SAFE-FS and would be very much in line with the themes of SAFE, such as your actions being only between you and the network, with no third party involved. Would mitigate any legal attacks as well.
EDIT: This is quite interesting. I might discuss this with backend and frontend developers and have a prototype of the Profit Claim web portal running quite soon
And I wonder why you would volunteer such advice as ignoring it? He’s dealing with other people’s money and their promised dividend which might be illegal.
Other projects have proven that using dividend in your project can give you a lot of trouble. Wouldn’t it be better to realise that now instead of when people have sent their money?
And that is why we have been looking at creating automated tools all along, and especially now the tools to allow it all to occur on SAFE without any outside party, not even us. This type of legal trouble only comes if there’s a single point of attack.
This project, like SAFE, will continue to evolve where it needs to, so I don’t see what your immediate worry is here @Melvin, it’s as if you see something as a static issue when that’s not the case
Look up for the project called SWARM They worked on a paper and I think it’s this one: SWARM Distributed Networks & Regulatory Frameworks. Not 100% sure if the answer is in there but I know someone who was more on top of that back then than I was so I can ask him
I simply think it’s dangerous and potentially misleading when you promise investors dividend while it can be illegal. It’s always better to do good research on this for both investors and the people that raise money instead of waiting to see what might come because you/they don’t.
I really hope you raise as much as you need because I can see you’re very passionate and ambitious and I admire that. But answers like:
isn’t good enough for me personally and I feel that someone needs to point out that things like promising dividend can cause trouble that might be prevented by doing research on forehand.
Here’s the guy ;-). I did a bit of volutenring for Swarm crowdfunding back in the days. They had a website up and ready and several projects that were about to launch. The idea was: create a token for each company or project on Counterparty. It was a bit like kickstarter but in this case with shareholder rights. And that’s where their lawyers got anxious and advised them not to work this way. They were afraid the SEC in the US could say: hey, these are stocks you can’t issue tokens this way and promise people shareholder right. So they found a different model as linked by @Melvin where you can have sort of democratic organisations with voting rights etc. as long as there are no shareholder rights involved. So in the case for SAFE FS I think it’s no problem to pay out some dividends from an app as long as it doesn’t promise any shareholder rights. But I’m no lawyer .
Yup I agree, great work and energy going into these ideas.
So people do get a right as a shareholder. The document says:
Upon owning these SFSC, you are entitled to a share in the Safecoin profits (dividends) at every dividend Announcement (as described in the “App Store Safecoin Profit Delivery” document, and the right to vote in official issues raised.
.