SAFE classifieds section for this community please :)

Unless we want to institute a policy of presumed guilty before proven innocent there’s no real way to avoid this. Someone has to actually DO something wrong before they are disciplined. Besides if we presume everyone is out to get us then any social structure is going to fall apart. We’re basing this on mutual trust not code yet. If you want to go and build a platform for classifieds using smart contracts and utter anonymity be my guest. I’m sure something like that will appear on the SAFE network but until then we’ll be working with something a little more old fashioned. I.e. Presumed innocence and good faith.

Personally I think having the classified section available only to those of good and active standing in the forum would make more sense. If you’re just going to lurk then we don’t really know who you are or anything. Also those who are generally active on the forums have developed some type of relationship with the rest of the community here and are less likely to cut and run. If a scammer doesn’t care about being banned from the community then no it isn’t a big disincentive but then again that would be one less scammer within the community. You can’t PREVENT antisocial behaviour using any kind of punishment, not even outright lethal deterents. If someone is going to do something bad they’ll do something bad regardless of the consequences. But do we really want people in the community that don’t care about the community? If scammers start popping up then they’ll be banned and if they pop up enough they’ll develop a pattern that can be strategized against. Wouldn’t that be handy when developing an anonymous decentralized network and apps to be written thereupon?

We need to stop being scared of bad things happening and just figure it out. Just watch the patterns and figure out how to prevent people from getting conned, robbed, harrassed, and otherwise hurt. How would we stop someone from getting conned while at the same time allow someone to promote their skills and/or advertise the skills they need?

One way might to match the classified section with a portfolio building section. A con CLAIMS they have skills. An actual contributor of one kind or another actually HAS skills. Whether you’re an artist, programmer, web developer/designer, writer, UX designer, scientist/doctor, engineer or anything else if you have skills then there’s usually some way to demonstrate them. And if there isn’t one could probably ask for help to figure some way out to do it. I think it’s a safe bet that most of the classifieds that would be posted on these forums would involve demonstratable skills right? So match classifieds + portfolio. If you answer a classified but can’t produce anything on a portfolio then you’re more likely to be a con artist. Make sense?

If I’m not mistaken a classifieds category would require special rules.

Surely people don’t want to see adverts for certain products. Examples abound and I’m sure most people detest the “pills”, “enlargement” classified threads. “Personal column” style of adverts? While those are obvious, we as a community might not agree on the line in the sand. So there is one hurdle to “implementing it NOW.”

Maybe we can agree that only members can post classifieds. Maybe only members can see the classifieds. So there is another consideration. Although I think from a moderation point of view considering the spam/scam magnet a classifieds section becomes, it is pretty obvious the answer to that one.

There are more questions to answer before implementing such a category. Answer the ones I have not mentioned and the “line in the sand” question and we will be a lot closer to doing this.

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While I have no objection to these per se they do tend to run away and “grow” out of control. But given the size of our community and the fact it seems to be a veritible sausage fest I’d say there’s little chance of that at the moment unless we get an influx of the fairer sex into our community. Which might happen once SAFE actually takes off but at that point I’d imagine the whole classified project could be ported to an app on SAFE which would kind of resolve the issue.

Here’s my own “line in the sand.” If you’re posting a classified ad it should be for yourself, for something you want to do or for a product you made or a service you personally are providing. If you’re posting an ad for a pill some corporation made that’s not your stuff, that’s somebody else’s stuff you’re promoting and doesn’t count as a classified ad. Same for “enlargement” or other such things. If you yourself are actually producing pharmasuticals then either you’re rich and should be buying oodles of safecoin or you’re very creative in how you’re producing said pharmasuticals as most of the time they require quite a bit of refinement. I’d be more interested in your method of refinement and getting a hold of your decentralized medical tech than buying your “pill” or “enlargement” product whatever that might be. But odds are if you’re selling some kind of pharmasutical you’re working for some drug company and I for one would throw your ad in the circular file without a second thought.

Short answer: Post only classifieds that concern you and yours not someone else’s stuff. That’s my line in the sand.

These questions have to consider people joining just to post classifieds. Not just the current crop.

And of course the questions are to create a starting point for some other questions that need answering.

And thanks for considering the questions, these & others do need discussing.

Sounds good. Anyone else with other/additional thoughts.

Whelp, I guess my two cents are:

Cent #1) This is a SAFE Network forum. It’s both a technical forum as a philosophical forum already. Any implementation assistance asked for in good faith can be asked for in the appropriate categories as they stand today. Any relevant discussion points brought up in good faith can be brought in up the appropriate categories as they stand today.

Cent #2) The moderation effort that this would require would outweigh the rewards. The development of moderation guidelines as well. Also, I would not be surprised if it caused a rift to build between the moderatiors and the new members.

I think this proposal is trying to “fix what ain’t broken”. So my view on the matter is extremely negative and I would treat these forums quite differently if this were to be implemented.

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It isn’t about crime and punishment - it is about protecting the community by thinking about potential hazards/issues with introducing a “Classifieds” section and discussing how to avoid them. The only alternative solution offered so far is to “Just do it” ignoring all the raised potential issues, without further discussion. This is the true situation here - not the one being painted.
I also suggested an alternative to a classified section that would appear to achieve the same goals.

Exactly, it’s about preventative measures - not “punishment” - its to protect the community, not pre-emptively punish an “offender” - that was not suggested by anybody.

So why not strategise beforehand based on known patterns of general scamming behaviour and think of safeguards to put in place?

I suggested a way…

It was essentially this… :smiley:

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This seems sensible, if not essential, and completely consistent with the original reason for doing this - to help the community exchange services and support each other.

However, those in favour have so far not attempted to create a case for this, either to show the value they expect from it, or to address the potential downsides that have been identified.

None of the issues I raised have even been responded to, let alone addressed. Apparently all this is so obvious - it’s just “common sense” (@goindeep), which implies everyone expressing concerns or wanting to discuss this must lack common sense. That’s insulting in my personal opinion.

I see little that this proposal would achieve that can’t already be done here and elsewhere, and plenty of ways it could turn out badly for us.

Frankly @goindeep you’ve just wasted everyone’s time. If there is somebody willing to make a serious case for this, by all means do it. Otherwise I suggest we close the discussion and get back to doing something useful that helps the project.

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Ill make sure to remind you and say ‘told you so’ when you end up doing it :slight_smile: