Of course I’m positive about all the things SAFE will bring about.
I was just asking about “arguments against the offensive usage” because I don’t understand how listing all “don’t do’s” (except the mandatory legalese) would help. Say, having an FAQ “Does MaidSafe Inc. & project contributors endorse offensive use of the network?”. Of course noone excpect that the answer would be “Yes” (and like I said it’s not even “legal use” (next to impossible to define) but “offensive” (completely impossible to define precisely).
Then as so often, you didn’t read what @Tonda said, and are responding to something else. He didn’t say anything about discouraging certain uses. He’s talking about public perception of offensive use:
Dispelling negative misconceptions is key to wide public adoption and improving social acceptance.
It appears you only read the preceding sentence and disregard the rest of the paragraph. As such a long standing member, and so many warnings about exactly this, this is not acceptable @janitor so please take this as a warning about this behavior.
It is very tiresome correcting you all the time because you don’t first bother to understand, or deliberately pretend this in order to troll. Either way, you are not adding value to the forum, but degrading it.
The confusion/conflict seems to be around @janitor pointing out that the Network itself is amoral and that "bad/objectionable/offensive/illegal activities will occur, whatever anyone claims to the contrary…this is where @janitor’s “offence” takes place I think.
He makes a straw man of the position he is arguing against - ie Nobody was claiming anything contrary… @Tonda was clearly advocating promoting the positive uses of Safe when marketing, rather than focusing on the negative use cases - not denying negative use cases will exist. I think he is also alluding to the “technology is Neutral” area of argument.
@Tonda have you used the slack.safenetwork.org yet that kind of motivation can echo loudly with response promptly…
@happybeing I think sometimes janitor has some insights consistently, so maybe @janitor you’re just trolling this thread right?
Sincerely,
I feel that using things like public bitcoin type blockchains exclusively yield tremendous risk to people’s well being. A lot of meta information is being gathered about who owns and how each coin got to the address where they go. Something has to change. A network that has a fair and throttled proof network, resourceful and useful. And anonymous, obfuscated to maximum obscurity. This will protect the data, not the activity. Good people activity’s data is protected, anyone’s data activity is protected… but not their actions external to the world. If the evil’re plotting attacks on the network eventually they carry them out and they are found. When the good people make a financial contribution to education the funds are cryptographically protected against those attackers.
But we cannot resort completely to centralized systems like blockchains because then we;re back to the start of the issue of being protected.
I don’t think tech is really neutral, if it were we wouldn’t pursue it with such fervor. If the impacted society is mature enough maybe every new tech would be neutral. But in our world there would be a difference between say nukes and (per Bostrom) a tech situation/outcome that amounted to finding out that putting sand in a microwave produced an efficient nuclear blast. Such a situation would bode much worse for our surviving the shot term than even nukes. SAFE won’t have a neutral affect/effect. Not if people develop the rest of the needed pieces of transparency around it. I can be Wikileaks to the 10 power. We will not retain privacy or rights unless we can reverse the centralization and secrecy of our organizations both state and corporate. Take puppet media. Its actually based on secrecy. As we start to achieve transparency it will be gone.
Depends who you’re targeting and what they consider “offensive.” If you’re talking to gun control fanatic liberals you want to emphasize that there are reputation systems in place and people have issues keeping secrets. If you’re talking to a bunch of free trade libertarians you want to emphasize the free market aspects and how SAFE can help liberate one from government control. If you’re talking to a conservative you want to emphasize how you only find what you search for. If you’re talking to someone who is being oppressed and censored you tell them about how it’s impossible to censor people and how you can search and share anything on SAFE. “Good” and “Evil” are subjective concepts. “Offensive” and “non-offensive” are also subjective concepts. And ultimately if you’re afraid of offending people you’ll never make any change in society.
I concur with @janitor being offended by the network is pointless. Being offended by content on the network is pointless as one won’t be able to do anything about it. There will be no central authority to complain to. Getting your panties in a twist because “the network offends you” or “I find your article offensive and think you shouldn’t post it.” Is absurd as far as SAFE is concerned. The SAFE network itself is open source and anyone can download it, contribute to it and use it. The content is all encrypted and distributed in a decentralized fashion across the globe. If someone wants to post something they can. Unlike the internet 1.0 SAFE is all about opt in rather than opt out. So if you don’t like something or are offended by something then don’t use it or view it.
I think the image of SAFE is just that, safe. Its been named and branded well IMHO. A great name, open, welcoming and safe feeling colors, a great community etc.
You can use a knife to make a sandwich or slit someone throat, the tool is not the problem, a crime is a crime and a criminal is a criminal. We cannot blame technology for someone’s crimes and we shouldn’t cease making technological and societal improvements because someone may use it for the wrong reasons. And if someone does decide to use that technology to commit a crime then it is up to law enforcement and the justice systems to catch them and punish them.
Again regarding the careful planning, SAFE has been very carefully planned for a long time. I believe I heard someone say that they began work on it before bitcoin, thats a long time to be working on something and there comes a point with any organization were you need to offer your solution to the masses, no amount of planning will get you over that line on its own.
And not to pick on janitor as he’s not the only one. This forum is riddled with whiney, nit picky useless posts that take away from what a forum should be. A forum is a place for discussion. Personally I think the mods could do a much better job in setting the right tone instead of assuming we all have ample amounts of time on our hands to sit here and think about our posts and threads for hours on end making sure every aspect of it is perfect. Perfection, like beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
I think everyone just needs to stand back and realize this is a forum for discussion and ideas and that maybe part of the beauty of a good hearty idea filled discussion and uniqueness of a place like this is partly because of the flaws, just like a wooden table with kinks, cracks and scuff marks it adds to the character.
BRAVO my friend! BRAVO! Beautifully written and very true. I just wish that janitor and son could pick up on this. Unfortunately he’ll have to overturn his insecurities first. For that he must first realize that nobody is perfect. I instead see most others as complimentary not adversarial. A collective consciousness if you will. Picking up where others left off and so on. The beauty of unencumbered social dynamics. Almost brings a tear to my eye.
True in a sense but if you remember back to the days of the beginning of the WWW there was a huge amount of educating that needed to be done, it was a long time that we spoke about the WWW before we spoke about Yahoo, Google etc,
I think this is the same. And remember that people need to make a conscious decision to use the network.
At the end of the day SAFE will launch this thing on a particular day at a specific time, so we should use the pre-launch buzz that will no doubt be in our community to our collective benefit and share that buzz with others.
Product launches are not a new thing. Some companies do them well, others not so well and others not at all. Those last set of organisations move forward with the mentality that is ‘build it and they shall come’ unfortunately that doesn’t always work, so we should be doing something instead of nothing and IMHO using the power of the community (its all about people after all) together with social media and a bit of planning could be a very powerful strategy for SAFE and it costs nothing but time.
I can’t speak for app developers because I am not an app developer and besides this forum is for the general SAFE community, so we should focus on what we can do instead of what someone else might do.
Lol not nessesarily. You can be in favor of gun rights without being a Republican, or a Conservative. You don’t need to adopt a party in order to agree with a single value.
If you do not have time to consider and choose your words then do not speak. The world is plagued by people speaking before they think and not thinking of the implications of what they say or how they say it. More to the point you are advocating that one should not take responsibility for one’s “flaws” as you put it. If one does not understand what is being conveyed, or somehow misinterprets it that is not up to the mods to enforce compliance. That’s up to the speaker to clarify the situation and ensure improved communication. It’s not my responsibility to cater to your lack of time. To put it bluntly I don’t care one bit that you do not have time to write out a well thought out article or take time to think before you speak. If you do not take time to write well I will “nitpick” your argument to death because you phrased something incorrectly and it’s your responsibility not mine to defend and/or clarify your position. If you don’t want to take the time doing so then think before you speak. As you say the purpose of a forum is to discus but language is inherently arbitrary and subjective, not to mention we’re all different hand have differing beliefs. So obviously people will have misunderstandings and conflicts of opinion and value. A single mispoken word can be the difference between peaceful understanding and drawn out conflict. Words have power. Choose them carefully.
Dude…that’s pretty extreme thinking, I bet your heaps of fun at parties…
My point being that no one is perfect and we are here for discussion, discussions have an eb and flow to them that are influenced by many different things so if someone is small or closed minded in their thinking they could get stuck on a word or the way someone said something when it doesn’t even necessarily matter.
So for example, I could start laying into you and begin nit picking for engaging in the de-railing of the thread, but I wont because I don’t really care to nit pick.
If people want to PM me their emails or other contact details I can keep a list and as we near launch we can begin organising the pre-launch social campaign, messages and hashtags. What does @nicklambert think?
I think that a co ordinated effort would be advantageous from both a timing and messaging perspective. If you’re happy to gather together a list that would be appreciated @goindeep.
I find most human beings too stupid, ignorant and/or obnoxious to bother carrying on a conversation with them. I find small talk to be a loathsome and pointless exercise used only to make contact with someone you really don’t know and have no real connection to. But as far as I’m concerned if you don’t know them or have SOMETHING to talk ABOUT why are you talking to them? I’m not antisocial I just deplore wasting my time on stupidity, triviality and social drama. Speak because you have something to say otherwise don’t speak. If I wanted just to listen to someone talking I could listen to an audiobook or some music. And if you want to bond with me tell me what’s really on your heart and mind, don’t talk about the weather or latest TV fad.
The point of all this being I agree with you for the most part. No one is perfect and we are here for discussions and yes there is an eb and flow to conversation. However the fact some might get stuck on a word or the way something is said DOES actually matter. That’s where we disagree and my point. Words matter, how you phrase things matter and when someone gets “stuck” and calls you out on it that matters to. ESPECIALLY WHEN WE’RE HAVING A DISCUSSION ON MARKETING THE SAFE NETWORK! Then it REALLY REALLY should matter because marketing is all about phrasing things correctly in order to make the most impact to the target audience. Which is something I mentioned above in a previous post.
Both you and Tonda seem to think that how something is phrased doesn’t matter. That one is “nit picking” for being selective about the meanings of words and phrases or misunderstanding what might have been said. You seem to believe it so much you write entire posts about it and say the mods aren’t doing a good enough job of preventing it. But here we are discussing a thread about marketing the SAFE network where the entire point is to phrase things properly, to specific audiences, in order to promote the network and make the greatest possitive impact. Do you not see the irony in complaining that someone is criticizing you on how you might have phrased something? Especially given the topic at hand?
No I do not believe I have derailed the conversation at all.
Great idea. I was thinking of starting a contact info exchange thread anyway.
One way to do this would be to join Discord (its like slack but looks better to me and we’re testing it out) and start a channel for anyone who is interested in helping the marketing to join. You can then message everyone in the channel, and have discussions there too. To join, visit Discord (no need to create an account).
EDIT: Some may prefer that to giving out emails etc as well.
Just LOL! 
The quality of some of these posts makes me both happy 
and sad. 