I’m all for anonymity. But at some point there needs to be liability. Would it be possible to code a system into the network that allows for an OPTIONAL receipt when transfering safecoins? Of course apps could do that, but I’m thinking it might be easier and possibly more secure and reliable if the system itself allows for it. That might also make it easier to facilitate trade. Otherwise buyers and sellers might have to use the same payment app in order to get a record of payment. A little checkbox might be enough. If that’s activated, a receipt would be generated. It would also keep the transaction cost down since no 3rd party would be involved.
I am skeptical about such receipts. Who would issue them? “The network”?
Since nodes come and go all the time, such receipts would be meaningless.
Peter paid Paul 123 Safecoins
Witnessed by: Joe the Group Leader (anonymous, currently offline and won’t come back)
Date: (N/A, as the network doesn’t have this feature)
As far as I remember safecoins already contain information about the past and current owner. Of course as soon as it’s spent again the information will be lost. What I’m asking for is the creation of immutable data containing that exact same information that safecoins have after a transaction. Basically a permanent copy of the structured data from safecoins. Maybe one could add the option to include a little more information about the kind of transaction, parties involved, terms and conditions, etc.
I guess this is moving towards smart contracts, but one can keep it simple in the beginning.
The receipt would be issued by the network in the same way that safecoins are handled.
I really feel that this needs to be at the app level, and bringing it down to the lower levels would harm the network
What’s your feeling based on?
Whatever method you use unless both agree, it destroys the guaranteed anonymity of the SAFEcoin.
For instance the receiver does not want an “official” record of the transaction, they could be persecuted. So unknown to them you have asked the SAFEnetwork for an “official” record thus destroying anonymity of the transaction.
At least if it is at the APP level then the receiver could use an APP that doesn’t do “receipts”
You need to clarify your terms.
“Liability” commonly means that there is a legal counterparty, as we have now where disputants expect to be able to (or obliged to) resort to courts in the event of disagreement over the fulfillment of a contract. A peer-to-peer economy by definition does not require counterparties, whether financial or “legal.”
I expect that users’ legitimate concerns over risk will be addressed at the application level, by procedures involving reputation management, multi-signature, and escrow. For example, if you need a receipt then you might use an Open Transactions type of bank.
EDIT Speaking of terms, I should have said "notary server " instead of “bank.”
Who is supposed to pay for that transaction (and space required to store it)?
(Old Bitcoin hands will recognize that you’re asking for an on-demand ledger to be added to SAFE, which many have said is unnecessary. I have no opinion on that; it certainly would be useful to some, but you can’t have it both ways. By its very nature this ledger would be meaningless if it was not public, and if it was public clearly SAFE transactions couldn’t be free so maybe this is one of those awh snap moments for those who proclaimed a Bitcoin-style ledger to be unnecessary on SAFE. @Seneca recently came up with a poor man’s ledger which is not useful for much as far as I can tell).
Yeah, you’d need the receiver to agree to the transaction in order for it to preserve anonymity in other cases. Would that be difficult to implement?
The costs would be the cost for storing the amount of data on the net. Buyer and seller can agree to include that into the sales price.
I’m just thinking that in order to substitute the old web people need to be able to hold each other accountable. If a seller takes payment without shipping the goods, there should be a way for the buyer to prove payment.
Haven’t heard of open transaction banks. Will check it out later.
Thats why they give a order receipt. That receipt can be crypto signed to prove you bought it from them. APP level stuff
But even with a receipt for crypto, if a company is going to “take your money and run” then no receipt is going to help, even in a court of law. They only have to send it to another two addresses and all history is gone, as intended for anonymity.
Open Transactions is a programming library for financial cryptography. The only implementation I know of is a company called Monetas.
It does seem a long time coming. This is the best presentation I’m aware of. Receipts aplenty:
As I corrected myself above, it’s a notary server rather than a bank (on the SAFE network, that would be notary “server”).
That’s not enough, a fee needs to be paid to the people who keep the data (farmers).
See Seneca’s post about poor man’s blockchain on Safe.
if you want receipts go use on of the other 600+ cryptos that have that. it’s not as if a safenet website would be in incapable of generating a bitcoin address.
Lots and lots of facts.